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CCP Hunting Players that Play EVE over PLEX ?

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Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#21 - 2011-10-27 19:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Anyways, I feel what you are saying Ot but if you want to use PI as a solo pursuit you have to do it in High-Sec under concord jurisdiction. As with almost everything else in Eve, Low through Nul Security systems are geared more towards groups of players, corps, and alliances.

We knew for a long time that planetary interaction was tied in with conflicts on the Dust 514 side. It's no big surprise that Planetary industry are forming around a more adversarial design as we close in on the first release of Dust.

But this is Eve, so if you have solo pursuit or casual gameplay interest, just do it in high security. Concord provides you the right to have that, and in a modest amount of profit that can go towards PLEX.

I usually make in excess of 400mil every couple weeks from my Concord colonies, so it can be done no doubt.

Edit: Forum moderation discussion removed, CCP Phantom.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
Jita Alt666
#22 - 2011-10-27 19:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
non judgement wrote:
Does anyone think that the price of PI on the market will increase for a while after the new custom offices?

The increase might even be enough to compensate for the raise in the taxes.



Look at the useful PI products (pos fuel etc) price history in the market for the last month. Line your your cursor up with the day the PI Dev Blog was released. The increase has already started - this is fuelled by speculation. This will continue until the results of the change of mechanics are clear. Then prices will stabilise. Then there will be a period where people look for new choke points and attempt to influence them to make more gains. Then prices will stabilise. Whether or not the returns given by said prices stabilise at a level or lower level than prior to pre-patch speculation is the great unknown.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#23 - 2011-10-27 19:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
The main problem with this thread starts right in the title.

The OP Is actually suggesting that CCP doesn't want people paying via PLEX and want's them out of EVE.

It's difficult to take the rest of the argument seriously until he first realizes that this isn't the case. CCP makes just as much money off PLEX accounts as they do with regular paid subscriptions. CCP even stands to make MORE MONEY off of PLEX accounts by the simple fact that PLEX can now be destroyed, and must be replaced by those who intended to use the ones that were destroyed.
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#24 - 2011-10-27 19:56:18 UTC
Guys, give it a rest already. You can be mature and understand him just fine if you would stop trying to be the stereotypical high school bully. Or, if that is your true persona hopefully an admin will do their job.

Ot, I understand you feel spited by CCP by their development of PI conflict, but consider this; People will need something to fight for when Dust 514 comes out, or else no one will play it because it will be rather boring sitting around only able to contemplate these invulnerable structures dropped down by Eve players.

It's important to see this side because CCP is genuinely not trying to hunt the players down and make it harder to buy plex with in-game money.

I hope you understand, and I hope to share resources on a concord sanctioned planet with you soon. Blink

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2011-10-27 20:04:08 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you.

Also please keep discussions about Player Owned Customs Offices in the according feedback thread.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Ottman
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-10-28 00:48:25 UTC
sorry ccp phantom, i tried that two times and none of my replies showed up in that thread, so nope i had to open up this one, not my fault !

MfG Ottman
Ottman
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-10-28 22:15:50 UTC
and again, push, yes i am so naughty :P
Holy One
Privat Party
#28 - 2011-10-28 22:31:26 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
I fairly easily make enough ISK to plex my account. OP should be amazed by that since i'm a fairly young player and run only the most basic of highsec PI. If you've been playing for 6 years and still can't afford to plex your account without PI you need to check out some other areas of the game :P

I look forward to this new content even if it's not perfect.


Posting in a 'I failed to get space rich or a Phd from eve online in almost a decade of not-really-trying' thread. Proof.
Obviously I wouldn't be too proud to take a donation. Hurrr.

:)
Jita Alt666
#29 - 2011-10-28 22:49:24 UTC
Holy One wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
I fairly easily make enough ISK to plex my account. OP should be amazed by that since i'm a fairly young player and run only the most basic of highsec PI. If you've been playing for 6 years and still can't afford to plex your account without PI you need to check out some other areas of the game :P

I look forward to this new content even if it's not perfect.


Posting in a 'I failed to get space rich or a Phd from eve online in almost a decade of not-really-trying' thread. Proof.
Obviously I wouldn't be too proud to take a donation. Hurrr.


Poor in real life and in Eve.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-10-28 22:52:41 UTC
Confirming that PI is the only way to pay for PLEX

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#31 - 2011-10-28 22:53:03 UTC
Ottman wrote:


but with the announcement of the player customs office you have broken this agreement ccp, and this means you kick those players that use plex to stay online out of eve online,


I am not even kidding. I stopped reading right there.
Facepalm to you OP, big facepalm to you.

o\
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
#32 - 2011-10-28 22:56:04 UTC
I was going to type out a well thought out and detailed response, pointing out the numerous flaws with OPs argument. But then I realised I'd rather get my balls caught in my zipper than humour him. So quick summary: OP you are wrong, please either shut up or unsubscribe, either way, no one cares.

o7

Damn nature, you scary!
Xavier Quo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-10-28 22:56:25 UTC
I will enjoy hacking your customs office, thus removing you from the game.
Holy One
Privat Party
#34 - 2011-10-29 02:48:28 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Holy One wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
I fairly easily make enough ISK to plex my account. OP should be amazed by that since i'm a fairly young player and run only the most basic of highsec PI. If you've been playing for 6 years and still can't afford to plex your account without PI you need to check out some other areas of the game :P

I look forward to this new content even if it's not perfect.


Posting in a 'I failed to get space rich or a Phd from eve online in almost a decade of not-really-trying' thread. Proof.
Obviously I wouldn't be too proud to take a donation. Hurrr.


Poor in real life and in Eve.



Space rich, life poor? Time and tide init. History is written on the sands of my living room carpet.

:)
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#35 - 2011-10-29 03:06:57 UTC
Nyio wrote:
Nobody likes raised taxes..
I think OP have atleast one good point in that wall of text.

Haven't done any PI myself since they revamped the Planetary Interaction UI.
And with the coming changes that would lower any profit made from it, it's not likely I ever will take it up again.

Edit: My perspective on this is all about highsec.


Unfortunately, unless the tariffs get raised, the economic case for POCOs falls flat - especially on P1 harvest planets which currently pay a measly 0.10-0.20% in fees compared to their export value. Which hits lo-sec POCOs hardest because they can't, even at 100% tariffs, make enough to pay for the POCO in any reasonable time frame. And if they encourage more then a handful of players to build colonies, the yields go down as the planet gets drained too fast each day.

P2 pays a bit more to export, but is still about 0.20-0.30% of current market value. P3 currently pays 3-5% in fees in relation to market value and P4 pays too much at 10-15% of market value. So P1/P2 fees could easily go up 50x and barely make a dent (P4 tariffs need to be cut a bit).
Holy One
Privat Party
#36 - 2011-10-29 03:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Nyio wrote:
Nobody likes raised taxes..
I think OP have atleast one good point in that wall of text.

Haven't done any PI myself since they revamped the Planetary Interaction UI.
And with the coming changes that would lower any profit made from it, it's not likely I ever will take it up again.

Edit: My perspective on this is all about highsec.


Unfortunately, unless the tariffs get raised, the economic case for POCOs falls flat - especially on P1 harvest planets which currently pay a measly 0.10-0.20% in fees compared to their export value. Which hits lo-sec POCOs hardest because they can't, even at 100% tariffs, make enough to pay for the POCO in any reasonable time frame. And if they encourage more then a handful of players to build colonies, the yields go down as the planet gets drained too fast each day.

P2 pays a bit more to export, but is still about 0.20-0.30% of current market value. P3 currently pays 3-5% in fees in relation to market value and P4 pays too much at 10-15% of market value. So P1/P2 fees could easily go up 50x and barely make a dent (P4 tariffs need to be cut a bit).


Time. Time. Time. The maths are obviously flawed, although less obviously the specifics of that as you point out so expertly are indisputable. But the time taken, soaked up, in conjunction with the risk aversion we all already have plenty of, accounts for this concept instantly. It should never even have been seriously discussed. Its dumb and won't work and that alone is not what annoys me. Its more the fact people are getting paid a salary to come up with this guff and someone on a higher salary, in a position of actual responsibility has no idea how their product functions.

Even if PI became 2x more profitable, or 5x more profitable, there's no way I am putting 2bn isk in to five indefensible pinjata POCO just to spend 2-5 hrs a week doing PI and every waking minute wondering if its all going to be wiped out. Anxiety and boredom are not catalysts for pleasure.

Nobody will do PI unless they have a locked down system ie wormhole. Or deep sov null - and I can't think of a single person in a sov 0.0 alliance who is going to turn up for POCO ctas on top of all the others.

Design philosophy for any game should be 1. Is it technically and budgetarily feasable. 2. Is it fun. 3. Does it add value. 4. Will someone be attracted to this and retained as a customer by it.

1. No. 2. No. 3. NO. 4. LOL

:)
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-10-29 03:26:07 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
You do realize that it doesn't matter to ccp if you play via plex, or by paying for a subscription right?

It may seem free to those using plex, but ccp makes money regardlress of how one maintains their subscription. The plex that people purchase in-game has alreeady been paid for in real world money by SOMEBODY when the plex was initially purchased.

CCP wanting people who pay with plex to leave the game would be the exact same thing as accusing them of wanting paying subscriberrs to go away too.


Actually, where I live PLEX are actually more expensive than the monthly subscription, so it would not be a stretch to say its ludicrous CCP would want to harm what is most likely their biggest revenue stream.

Plex are $19 and monthly subs $15. As noted, every plex in game has been purchased with real life cash.
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-10-29 03:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
Holy One wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Nyio wrote:
Nobody likes raised taxes..
I think OP have atleast one good point in that wall of text.

Haven't done any PI myself since they revamped the Planetary Interaction UI.
And with the coming changes that would lower any profit made from it, it's not likely I ever will take it up again.

Edit: My perspective on this is all about highsec.


Unfortunately, unless the tariffs get raised, the economic case for POCOs falls flat - especially on P1 harvest planets which currently pay a measly 0.10-0.20% in fees compared to their export value. Which hits lo-sec POCOs hardest because they can't, even at 100% tariffs, make enough to pay for the POCO in any reasonable time frame. And if they encourage more then a handful of players to build colonies, the yields go down as the planet gets drained too fast each day.

P2 pays a bit more to export, but is still about 0.20-0.30% of current market value. P3 currently pays 3-5% in fees in relation to market value and P4 pays too much at 10-15% of market value. So P1/P2 fees could easily go up 50x and barely make a dent (P4 tariffs need to be cut a bit).


Time. Time. Time. The maths are obviously flawed, although less obviously the specifics of that as you point out so expertly are indisputable. But the time taken, soaked up, in conjunction with the risk aversion we all already have plenty of, accounts for this concept instantly. It should never even have been seriously discussed. Its dumb and won't work and that alone is not what annoys me. Its more the fact people are getting paid a salary to come up with this guff and someone on a higher salary, in a position of actual responsibility has no idea how their product functions.

Even if PI became 2x more profitable, or 5x more profitable, there's no way I am putting 2bn isk in to five indefensible pinjata POCO just to spend 2-5 hrs a week doing PI and every waking minute wondering if its all going to be wiped out. Anxiety and boredom are not catalysts for pleasure.

Nobody will do PI unless they have a locked down system ie wormhole. Or deep sov null - and I can't think of a single person in a sov 0.0 alliance who is going to turn up for POCO ctas on top of all the others.

Design philosophy for any game should be 1. Is it technically and budgetarily feasable. 2. Is it fun. 3. Does it add value. 4. Will someone be attracted to this and retained as a customer by it.

1. No. 2. No. 3. NO. 4. LOL


And quoting for truth.

CCP had better be about to announce some planetary based defense shield that can only be deactivated by ground invasion forces or this will be a major case of WTF (if memory serves me DUST is limited to Null at least initially too).

And it would require so many conditions to make them work even then in low sec that even then it would be Question
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-10-29 03:44:51 UTC
I could see some validity for this argument, if there were not literally hundreds of other avenues to make isk. In defense of CCP, they did fix a few issues with this change and made Pi have a bit more risk. Instead of the time you spend doing Pi, perhaps run an incursion instead? Sorry OP I just can't see the logical connection between the Pi changes and PLEX.

Something clever
Holy One
Privat Party
#40 - 2011-10-29 03:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
I don't normally bother to offer suggestions but since you mentioned it: its obvious isn't it? a. You need to restrict this to nullsec k and wh space planets and offer defensive capabilities in the form of anchorable deterrent with a cost:protection ratio favourable to the volume of profit/s goods b. There needs to be far greater expanse to PI as a whole to draw people to it.

I'd start by getting rid of tech moons or nerfing them horribly and putting those resources in planets. The rest is academic, and DUST provides the punch for that.

The proposal currently on the table is needlessly complex, completely unoroginal (ie it recycles old code and adds nothing new ergo no value to the game) and has been proven, incontrovertably, over almost a decade, to be of little interest to players. POS bashing has never been a prime mover socially or economically. As a sov mechanic it barely functioned and as an economic conflict driver it is mooted by all your other broken ass game mehanics and balancing.

The fact there are a far greater ratio of griefers:creators/builders/entrepenerial squits in this mmo should be a titanic shadow cast over every single proposal.

I left off a 5. on that previous post btw for my design conditions: 5. Will this, through effect of resonance, cause us to drop net subscribed accounts?

You're going to lose my two PI accounts .. I hope you can say with certainty I will be replaced by new or expansive griefer subs. I know my t2 ammo won't be. But my bile on this one isn't about me or the impact your changes will have on me. Frankly I was bored of PI anyway after a little over 3 months. As our friend above points out - there's just loads of quicker, easier, less tedious and less risky ways to make 400m in 30 days.

:)