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CCP stll needs to do something about cloaks

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Black Dranzer
#261 - 2013-06-15 00:37:45 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Who said its the most viable?

You didn't. I merely assumed you'd use the best possible counterargument. Somewhat of a waste of time, but oh well.

Okay, what is the most viable counter to an AFK cloaker hotdrop? Or, if you prefer, the most effective.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2013-06-15 00:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Black Dranzer wrote:
Okay, humor me. I'm cloaked in a safespot that doesn't cross any warp paths. I have a cyno mounted, ready to deploy at any time. I have been paid a sum of isk to do this for an indeterminate amount of time. I don't log off except at downtime. When I log back in as soon as downtime is over, I immediately cloak up and set up a new safe spot.
…and all of that once again comes back to the same conclusion: this supposed “AFK cloaker” problem has nothing to do with AFK or cloaking — it's all just a bunch of other unrelated issues that people try to squeeze under a single umbrella because they believe that “AFK” has any kind of negative connotation to it.


So really: why can't people own up and simply discuss the mechanics that are causing problems for them?
Black Dranzer
#263 - 2013-06-15 00:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Tippia wrote:
…and all of that once again comes back to the same conclusion: this supposed “AFK cloaker” problem has nothing to do with AFK or cloaking — it's all just a bunch of other unrelated issues that people try to squeeze under a single umbrella because they believe that “AFK” has any kind of negative connotation to it.

I actually partially agree with this; I think AFK cloaking is a red herring. I think cloaking itself is in need of adjusting but that AFK cloaking is merely a side-effect of a somewhat broken mechanic. A symptom of a greater problem, rather than a problem in and of itself. The true issue is, and has been, in relation to intel gathering.

I only use AFK cloaking because everybody seems obsessed with it and because it cleanly demonstrates the issues with cloaking: That it attempts to simulate the effects of stealth, rather than stealth itself.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#264 - 2013-06-15 00:49:20 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Does lighting a cyno in a wormhole even do anything?


It will light up and such iirc, but you will not be able to jump from system to system with the beacon despite the wormhole systems technically being in range of one another for cyno jumps.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#265 - 2013-06-15 00:56:20 UTC
Posting in topic I've never seen before and has no previous like threads... Roll

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Black Dranzer
#266 - 2013-06-15 00:59:10 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Posting in topic I've never seen before and has no previous like threads... Roll

Gosh, with the frequency of the topics you'd almost think this was a major issue worthy of action or something!

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#267 - 2013-06-15 01:03:30 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Posting in topic I've never seen before and has no previous like threads... Roll

Gosh, with the frequency of the topics you'd almost think this was a major issue worthy of action or something!

Not really, as proven every single time one of these threads arise.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#268 - 2013-06-15 01:04:07 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Nobody EVER said it would become W space...

If you did some reading yourself, but apparantly you don't want time of yoru ISK making, you would have seen that people compared it to W-space and shown that no local doesn't mean it's impossible to do stuff.

And like it has been said...patrolling is easy..

Bubble gate...put some ships on it to shoot anything that jumps through...problem solved...you killed the cyno ship before it becomes a threat.

But then you will just whine again how that means you can't make ISK in your carebear endeavors. Guess what...that's how null-sec works.

1.) Fight for your right
2.) Accept your just a ******* who doesn't deserve null access in the first place cause you can't even keep a simple cyno frigate out of your system.


So much bitter in this post, mate. I haven't even undocked today, mostly have been on TS3 with friends and chatting here and there in game and out of game, and fulfilling my daily allotment of forum warrioring here.. I haven't made a single tangible isk all day.

But it has generally been said that if we were to remove local like wormholes, PvP and cloaky camper problems would be magically fixed for nullsec (somehow).

Nice personal attacks by the way J'Poll. Care to post with your main here, or did he collect another forum ban for you being naughty in other threads?


Yes. It would fix cloaky camping.

Cause it will be useless to camp people if they don't know you are there.

And at least I voice my own opinions and don't dance to the tune my master tells me to dance to like a muppet.


Replace "opinions" with "preconceived notions of superiority" and you've nailed it on the head.

And yes, it would fix cloaky campers that are there just to disrupt activity, but the majority aren't there for just disruption; they are there for easy kills on ratting ships and mining vessels, and killing local will allow them to have that for a short span of time before the sensible people pack their bags and head to highsec to make money (which would in turn kill off any attempts at prodding industry to be done in null like CCP seems to want with their new Odyssey changes).

So, for the 47'th time, it is a pretty poorly conceived notion that killing off local will give you a heightened sense of risk, because again, removing local worked for wormholes because they were built from the ground up to operate like that and work without local because you actually have to scan down the entryways, whereas you have a series of warpable gates in standard space.


Which means.

Protecting yourself in null-sec is easier.

As you can just put protection on the gates...as they are fixed into position.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Black Dranzer
#269 - 2013-06-15 01:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Lady Spank wrote:
Not really, as proven every single time one of these threads arise.

Proven how, exactly? People harped on for years about faction warfare and learning skills before they finally got fixed. That doesn't mean that every thread about learning skills and faction warfare except the ones right before the changes were announced were a waste of time.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#270 - 2013-06-15 01:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Black Dranzer wrote:
I actually partially agree with this; I think AFK cloaking is a red herring. I think cloaking itself is in need of adjusting but that AFK cloaking is merely a side-effect of a somewhat broken mechanic. A symptom of a greater problem, rather than a problem in and of itself. The true issue is, and has been, in relation to intel gathering.

I only use AFK cloaking because everybody seems obsessed with it and because it cleanly demonstrates the issues with cloaking: That it attempts to simulate the effects of stealth, rather than stealth itself.

…so, again, why don't you address the actual problems instead of harping on about non-existing and irrelevant side-issues?
Why are you still here talking about AFK cloaking and defending its position as a real issue when it's complete bunk?
Black Dranzer
#271 - 2013-06-15 01:15:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…so, again, why don't you address the actual problems instead of harping on about non-existing and irrelevant side-issues?

In regards to cloaking itself, I do. In regards to intel as a whole, I generally keep my mouth shut because whilst I have some loose ideas, the entirety of the intel system is beyond my understanding. I don't have enough knowledge or experience to make good suggestions for it. Even if I did, what could I possibly hope to achieve? Widespread changes to major systems aren't something CCP would undergo lightly, and trying to convince the community that the real problem is intel would be akin to shoveling **** uphill.

I jump on this bandwagon because there's a chance of something actually happening if it's given enough of a push. A cloaking adjustment would not be a real solution, but it'd be an interesting change, and enough people want it that it's likely to actually happen if it garners enough support.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#272 - 2013-06-15 01:17:01 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Nobody EVER said it would become W space...

If you did some reading yourself, but apparantly you don't want time of yoru ISK making, you would have seen that people compared it to W-space and shown that no local doesn't mean it's impossible to do stuff.

And like it has been said...patrolling is easy..

Bubble gate...put some ships on it to shoot anything that jumps through...problem solved...you killed the cyno ship before it becomes a threat.

But then you will just whine again how that means you can't make ISK in your carebear endeavors. Guess what...that's how null-sec works.

1.) Fight for your right
2.) Accept your just a ******* who doesn't deserve null access in the first place cause you can't even keep a simple cyno frigate out of your system.


So much bitter in this post, mate. I haven't even undocked today, mostly have been on TS3 with friends and chatting here and there in game and out of game, and fulfilling my daily allotment of forum warrioring here.. I haven't made a single tangible isk all day.

But it has generally been said that if we were to remove local like wormholes, PvP and cloaky camper problems would be magically fixed for nullsec (somehow).

Nice personal attacks by the way J'Poll. Care to post with your main here, or did he collect another forum ban for you being naughty in other threads?


Yes. It would fix cloaky camping.

Cause it will be useless to camp people if they don't know you are there.

And at least I voice my own opinions and don't dance to the tune my master tells me to dance to like a muppet.


Replace "opinions" with "preconceived notions of superiority" and you've nailed it on the head.

And yes, it would fix cloaky campers that are there just to disrupt activity, but the majority aren't there for just disruption; they are there for easy kills on ratting ships and mining vessels, and killing local will allow them to have that for a short span of time before the sensible people pack their bags and head to highsec to make money (which would in turn kill off any attempts at prodding industry to be done in null like CCP seems to want with their new Odyssey changes).

So, for the 47'th time, it is a pretty poorly conceived notion that killing off local will give you a heightened sense of risk, because again, removing local worked for wormholes because they were built from the ground up to operate like that and work without local because you actually have to scan down the entryways, whereas you have a series of warpable gates in standard space.


Which means.

Protecting yourself in null-sec is easier.

As you can just put protection on the gates...as they are fixed into position.


Not really if you have multiple connecting gates into a single system; for a dead end system or a system at the start of a pocket, you can sit there and only have to observe one gate. When it gets to be that you have a hub system or a system with many entrances into it, covering them requires more eyes there. Whereas wormholes will have one or two entrances that they can roll in order to make sure that they can have no unexpected visitors as long as they have a vigil on the way in/out.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#273 - 2013-06-15 01:22:57 UTC
Cloaking is the red herring, botters are the problem. Botters keep making these threads because they know trying to convince people that a game mechanic change in favor of botters is a lost cause. So the real problem is that botters are also, in addition to ******* the economy, filling up the forums with **** posts.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#274 - 2013-06-15 01:25:18 UTC
If you are so affraid of AFK (AFK...) cloaking, simply move your lazy ass in another system and stop crying.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2013-06-15 01:29:24 UTC
AFK cloaking, the scourge of Eve. They're like teh bad man waiting in your closet for you to go to sleep to touch you.

Don't ban me, bro!
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#276 - 2013-06-15 01:43:27 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:


Not really if you have multiple connecting gates into a single system; for a dead end system or a system at the start of a pocket, you can sit there and only have to observe one gate. When it gets to be that you have a hub system or a system with many entrances into it, covering them requires more eyes there. Whereas wormholes will have one or two entrances that they can roll in order to make sure that they can have no unexpected visitors as long as they have a vigil on the way in/out.


Isn't that the reason you are in a corporation that is in an alliance.

So you can work together.

I know that this sound weird to carebears who like to run things solo so they don't have to share.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Callista Jael
Black Science Navigators
#277 - 2013-06-15 01:46:36 UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not much interested in gardening. But isn't the practice of plopping a scarecrow in the middle of a garden patch meant to scare away the birds from feeding on the vegetables? But then they wisened up and called it's bluff. I've never seen an effective scarecrow, but then again, I don't really know much of what I'm talking about.
Black Dranzer
#278 - 2013-06-15 01:49:40 UTC
Callista Jael wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not much interested in gardening. But isn't the practice of plopping a scarecrow in the middle of a garden patch meant to scare away the birds from feeding on the vegetables? But then they wisened up and called it's bluff. I've never seen an effective scarecrow, but then again, I don't really know much of what I'm talking about.

Scarecrow can't summon a herd of cats.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#279 - 2013-06-15 02:06:55 UTC
I still don't know what is wrong with cloaking. If it's because you are scared just stop being a wuss.
Black Dranzer
#280 - 2013-06-15 02:08:43 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
I still don't know what is wrong with cloaking.

It's not stealth.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna