Market Discussions

I would very much like to work with anyone willing to listen to my proposals and taking a genuine interest in monetary concerns and capital markets.

I can see that you do not understand money and credit. I will take RAW's advice and instead eat pop corn

The capital market in Eve currently has zero rules from CCP regulating it. How does creating a new game mechanic which issues NPC bonds make the capital market more free? It does the exact opposite as it would create a floor in which interest rates could not fall below.

I see your point and concern in my somehow contra dictionary statement.
But we don't just need free markets we also need efficient and liquid markets.
With the current setup you can defiantly argue that we have free a free market. Players are free to pursue any business opportunity and create any kind of company they like within EVE. However this is not happening because of various reasons, many which can be linked to system requirements, lack of investor protection and no rules and regulations.

In regards to eve capital markets I want to create a system which finds the sweet spot, where investors can meet borrowers on fair terms. This I believe will require regulations aswell as new IT system in-game features.

The new game mechanic is just another tool for CCP to control the money supply.
I agree with you say that government issues will create a floor or benchmark for interest rates and I only see this as positive aspect as investors will be able to value private bonds against this benchmark, exactly as its done IRL.

Finally, the setup for government issues are designed to work as a proxy for the private issues I would like to see implemented later.
When ingame IT systems and markets are up running smoothly on government bonds the mechanics will be much easier implemented into the private sector.

ROFL, you are so full of your self.

I do not want this thread to be about my English. However if you need me to clarify any past sentences which I may have constructed wrong or where I did not explain myself good enough I will be happy to do so now.

You may have been right that the features and idea forum would have been a better choice for this thread. I chose this forum because it is market oriented and its not uncommon that players post ideas and suggestions here as well.

Let me correct a common misconception regarding money supply. When money supply increases doesn't necessarily mean we are going to have inflation, there is another main factor that you have to take into consideration, the increase in raw commodity supply. As before let me give you an hypothetical example.

Say that the total isk in EVE is 500 trillion, and we only have one commodity trit which we use to build everything, which we have a total of 1000 in all of EVE. Now let us say through the various activities of ratting, missioning etc. (isk creation activities) we have a total inflow of 100 trillion in the EVE economy in the year 2012 (an increase of 20%). Now you will say ah we will have inflation of 20% and that is bad because inflation is bad (it isn't by the way, uncontrollable inflation is bad, but planned controlled ones are healthy for the economy, i'll explain in a bit). But you still didn't take into account the increase in trit over the year 2012. Now if the miners mined 200 trit over the year (20% increase), then we shouldn't have any inflation, if they mined more we would have deflation, and if they mined less we would have inflation.

So you see don't take the raw money supply numbers alone, you have to ask yourself how much more commodities got created (produced) also in EVE. CCP should strive to make the money supply, or net inflow of isk, slighly higher than the new commodities being created each year. Having a low number of inflation is good, as it encourages investment so your ideal money doesn't lose value. It is like a reverse hidden interest rate. The risk free rate in EVE is the inflation rate, we already have one. Of course having a high one means wealth deterioration which decrease the value of the iskies. Inflation also plays a role in balancing the game since that means older player don't have an inherent advantage over newer players, as their isk reserves will slowly lose value over time (thankfully not like wow where you lose all your value on each expansion, so bittervets don't moan please).

My point is simply I don't see how a central bank is needed or why. Sure it is a "nice" idea, but the sole job of the central bank is to control the money supply and as I explained in the previous post it is controlled and CCP is on it. So why the extra complication I still don't understand.


Just to answer your argument about CCP controlling the NPC prices to fit their needs and payouts. How is your idea of CCP controlling the central bank have any less control than through the NPCs, they are still control over the interest rates. At least with NPC's the players have a significant degree of control, as CCP can't just swoon in and changes payouts and prices on a whim (they only do when something is clearly broken or needs heavy rebalancing, HAI FW).

We have to remember that this a game and CCP will try to keep things within its intended parameters. For example let us say that suddenly minning veld becomes the highest paid activity in EVE, and people flock left and right to mine it. Do you think is a good idea for CCP to not do nothing about it and let it happen, or would it be wiser to maybe change the ore composition or maybe increase the missioning income etc.

At the end of the day the economy can swing, but it can only swing in the range that CCP allows it to (and it is a pretty wide range for a game). Another example (not hypothetical this time) is the wormhole phenomena in EVE. Many people moan that wh's get a lot of iskies, relative to their efforts. CCP didn't predict that people will actually live in wormholes, and they factored in the time lost to actually finding the holes and getting out every time you wanted to do sites. They also didn't expect people to actually use dreads to kill them. Now obviously this wasn't intended, but CCP elected not to change the payouts of these sites (until now at least) because even though they were higher than intended they didn't break the game or brought heavy imbalances. So at the end of the day the the wormhole culture as we know it now, was created by the players, and that is just one example why EVE is a great game.

Now regarding your argument about banks don't run on trust alone, yes of course you put your money in the banks for the interest payout. But trust is a fundamental ingredient that is neccassary for a bank to function, and it just isn't there in EVE. the credit risk premium required will just be too high to be anywhere near feasible to account for the lack of trust. And to tell you the truth the people that have acquired that trust, especially on the MD forums can easily acquire funding if they need to. So again under the current mechanics of EVE, I just don't see banks working. My offer still stands if you are adamant about it, as I said if 200% is not enough to cover your credit risk, I can offer you 2000%. So let me know

It is a long post I know, but I tried to make it as short as possible but at the same time being coherent.

^^ I found your problem right there.

Basically proves you dont really understand EVE. Your rather strange one eyed view on economy in general is already pointed out pretty extensively.

Oh and what VV was saying is that ccp by being developers control isk sinks and faucets, and regulates PLEX prices accordingly, in the event of to much isk flowing in, becoming available in player hands through other means, or by grops of players gaining a huge isk advantage from exploit or misbalance.

The only significant risk in investing is that of a scam and he wants to remove this risk and have the bonds secured by god (CCP). The risk of FX fluctuations and inflation are completely trivial by comparison.

If only they where as smart as you harry the clown .