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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Seriously? That's some incredibly bad game design EVE.

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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#21 - 2013-06-14 11:27:28 UTC
On the off chance that you do stick around, here is a friendly advice. If you choose to try and follow and understand it is fully up to you of course.

What you did in your original post is more whine and rage then constructive criticism. Im guessing what you wanted to do was forward a suggestion on what you think could be a good change for EVE correct?
First off this is the right forum section for this; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270
I know that you cant post there while on a trial account, but now you know for the future.

Second, post constructively. Make sure your post include why you think it would be a good change, how it could improve the game, and how it could be done.
Do not use caps, swear, or bad mouth CCP or the players. As soon as you do any of those you loose a lot of credibility and you will end up with a thread like this.

Final one, if someone reacts badly to your proposal, dont respond with more bad mouthing, swearing and caps! Read their points, counter said points, and come with valid arguments and reasons as to why you feel they are wrong.
Just saying "You are wrong!" will not do you any good.

Stay polite, understand that things are different in EVE, and understand that if you are respectful during the discussion most will respond in a similar fashion.

Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
FlamesOfHeaven
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-06-14 11:28:28 UTC
4Chan or WoW? Lol.

Wow, who is the one ranting now? Who is the one not being mature enough to hold his rage and posting such stupid post?

This thread is a lost cause now.

Eve is a sandbox, anyone can play and do whatever they want. Whether they be pvper, scammer, pirate, ganker, carebear or whatever.

We are free to do whatever we want besides the EULA, no one is going force us with silly chat censors or any communist/socialist like rules. There are many good communities in EvE with friendly mature people but sadly you took the wrong alley to go to.

There are many games out there willing to have you if you dont like EvE.

We aren't "forcing" you to stay.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#23 - 2013-06-14 11:30:25 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
Oh it gets better. I was just told, and confirmed by a GM, that I can't complete the mission and will need to have the quest line reset because that was "my" Dagan. I can't just re-do it myself.


And yes yes, I get that whole spiel about how "Trust nobody", I don't care if it was an alt.

It's not his fault. It's not mine. It's EVE. It should've spawned one for each of us, as we both had the mission, both helped kill Dagan.

But no. Then people will come here and justify how that's just "EVE" and how it's "Hardcore" , and it's "my fault".

Right.

So I gotta lose standing now, money, time, effort, ect.

Cmon now,. There's no reason for it to be like this other than lazy developers. Anyone trying to excuse such a system is lying to themselves.


It you both had the Dagan mission..


It DID spawn one for each of you..

1 for you in YOUR mission pocket
1 for him in HIS mission pocket.

Please. Do us a favour, don't whine anymore.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-06-14 11:31:33 UTC
First off, you were sharing your mission reward with the guy that ripped you off. You did not share the actual mission. It was assigned to you to complete however possible. EVE does promote team play, you beat the mission as a team right? The only difference is the guy that helped you probably knew what he was doing and knew he could jack.your mission loot and sell it to someone on contracts for some decent isk. It isn't bad design, it was meant to allow people to ruin things for you if you trust the wrong person. If he had his own similar mission he could of shared it with you if he wanted and you each would of gotten what you needed.

You come on here angry and complaining about a known game mechanic so people won't respond nicely to you. What are you gonna do when you get ganked or if you get affected by a big corp theft in the future? Complain about it or learn and move on? If you complain whenever something bad happens, this game isn't for you. It is designed to allow bad things to happen to you. Whether you learn how to avoid or prevent them from happening often is up to you. The other option is quit because the game is too harsh for your liking.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-06-14 11:31:41 UTC
Hahahahahahaa....ha ha ha....hehehehehe...BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OK. NO, Its not EVE's fault. It is sqaurely your fault. This guy didn't need to kill Dagan, he was trolling you. Valuable lesson learned. Move along now
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#26 - 2013-06-14 11:33:11 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Well, since it is how mission system is implemented this is game mechanic. And since you was denied reward Eve's main principle of being "cold harsh universe" was fulfilled. Which is a good thing in and on itself.


Hardly. I don't feel of it as being "Cold and hard"

I feel it's dumb and poorly designed from a mechanics stand point. They are actively discouraging party play in a game that is all about being connected with others.

As for Dror's absurd notion. That wouldn't happen.


Destination. Nobody fooled me. NEither of us knew. Both noobs.


On top of this, how can you keep arguing that it's not a poor mechanic when a Game Master has to come and reset the quest? Cmon now. Don't be stupid here.


Plenty of examples where group play works

You made a stupid error...Deal with it.

If this pisses you off already, well I will expect more raging and whining tears on the forums soon.


Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#27 - 2013-06-14 11:35:24 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
I swear I've never seen a community more stuck up it's own ******* than EVE Online. My god. They can't take any VALID criticism. Even if they know they're in the wrong, they will constantly at as if not. It's like a religious, like a cult. They so badly want to be away from all the WoW clones they convince themselves that EVE is perfect and nothing is wrong, and if someone doesn't like something about EVE, they're in the wrong regardless of the issue.

I was led to believe the EVE Community was mature due to the "complexity" of it. I was led astray, I guess, just like with this mission.


EVE's community is on the same level as 4Chan or WoW's. No better, no worse. Most communities in games are like this these days. I'm glad I could dispel my own personal curiosity to see if people talking about how EVE was a "mature game for mature people"

It's not. Not that it's bad, I just wish people would stop perpetuating such falsities.


Your points are NOT valid.

The mechanics are working as intended by CCP. 10 years of EVE and 500.000+ subscribers proof it works.

That you don't like the harsh and cut-throat environment is not a fault in the game mechanics, it's personal preference.

If you don't like it...then don't play the game.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
FlamesOfHeaven
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-06-14 11:36:52 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Hahahahahahaa....ha ha ha....hehehehehe...BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OK. NO, Its not EVE's fault. It is sqaurely your fault. This guy didn't need to kill Dagan, he was trolling you. Valuable lesson learned. Move along now


Exactly, making excuses every single time to pull the blame from himself. Its "EvE" fault, its the lazy "Dev" fault. Now its the community fault! Lol
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#29 - 2013-06-14 11:37:47 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
I swear I've never seen a community more stuck up it's own ******* than EVE Online. My god. They can't take any VALID criticism. Even if they know they're in the wrong, they will constantly at as if not. It's like a religious, like a cult. They so badly want to be away from all the WoW clones they convince themselves that EVE is perfect and nothing is wrong, and if someone doesn't like something about EVE, they're in the wrong regardless of the issue.

I was led to believe the EVE Community was mature due to the "complexity" of it. I was led astray, I guess, just like with this mission.


EVE's community is on the same level as 4Chan or WoW's. No better, no worse. Most communities in games are like this these days. I'm glad I could dispel my own personal curiosity to see if people talking about how EVE was a "mature game for mature people"

It's not. Not that it's bad, I just wish people would stop perpetuating such falsities.


This might come as a surprise but most people will seem hostile and have some level of attitude if the person talking to them has a bad attitude Blink

Edit; Leaving this here for J'Poll. I will be tired tomorrow Lol



HAHAHAHAHA.

NC, that pictures says it all.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Echo Echoplex
#30 - 2013-06-14 11:51:51 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
...Like any other game...

butbutbut...it's not.

Can I give you perhaps another perspective, one coming from a fellow noob?

I haven't played the Sisters arc yet, but if this had happened to me I'd be POd and frustrated too, with myself, not the game; for splitting the mission not knowing that I can't without losing the reward, for assuming I could split it based on the faulty logic of playing the arc "like any other game", for wasting my own time and being outplayed for my reward and for having to start the mission all over again.

I completely understand your frustration but I don't understand why it's directed elsewhere. The GM was nice enough to reset it for you so you've got another opportunity. Cool off and take advantage of the favor.

Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-06-14 11:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jose Black
Since you didn't mention that: did you even ask that person you got help from about the matter?
Didn't he have to blow up his own Dagan as well and would've ended having two mission items? What if it wasn't his intention to ruin your day but just him being as clueless as you were?

I could agree with you about a design flaw In case someone doesn't even need to scratch "his" Dagan to complete the mission with a random mission item of the same type.

Edit:
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
So I gotta lose standing now, money, time, effort, ect.

You're really losing reason here. If the the mission gets reset you're not losing standing. You're in fact gaining more while redoing it. What leads you to the conclusion you're losing money? You're actually getting more of it as well. Effort? Well double the effort double the rewards. I fail to see the problem there.
Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#32 - 2013-06-14 12:03:03 UTC
Jose Black wrote:
Since you didn't mention that: did you even ask that person you got help from about the matter?
Didn't he have to blow up his own Dagan as well and would've ended having two mission items? What if it wasn't his intention to ruin your day but just him being as clueless as you were?

I could agree with you about a design flaw In case someone doesn't even need to scratch "his" Dagan to complete the mission with a random mission item of the same type.


IIRC the mission is only classed as "Complete" when his ship is destroyed In that players specific pocket, and Dagan himself is in the station. Merely having Dagen won't allow you to complete the mission, as the ship is still running around, and killing somebody elses Dagan won't allow you to complete it either, even if you scoop him.

This was most likely a case of a Vet being a ****.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#33 - 2013-06-14 12:11:10 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Jose Black wrote:
Since you didn't mention that: did you even ask that person you got help from about the matter?
Didn't he have to blow up his own Dagan as well and would've ended having two mission items? What if it wasn't his intention to ruin your day but just him being as clueless as you were?

I could agree with you about a design flaw In case someone doesn't even need to scratch "his" Dagan to complete the mission with a random mission item of the same type.


IIRC the mission is only classed as "Complete" when his ship is destroyed In that players specific pocket, and Dagan himself is in the station. Merely having Dagen won't allow you to complete the mission, as the ship is still running around, and killing somebody elses Dagan won't allow you to complete it either, even if you scoop him.

This was most likely a case of a Vet being a ****.


Confirming.

Killing someone else's Dagan doesn't complete your mission.

You have to kill the one that is specific to your mission pocket.

So...again, it was no new player. Just an alt of a veteran pretending to be one and who does prey on people like you to make a huge mistake.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#34 - 2013-06-14 12:12:59 UTC
Check out any of the other threads in the newbie Q&A. Valid criticism is fine, frustration is fine, the community mostly gives helpful responses to newbies who ask. Some posters have even tried to give constructive advice despite the attitude taken in your posts.

Perhaps if you found that you don't fit in here, the illusion is not that of the mature community, but your assessment of your own maturity.
Lilliana Stelles
#35 - 2013-06-14 12:30:04 UTC
Since there are no locks on items in EVE, if EVE provided multiplicative rewards, you'd see squads of 30 running missions just to spawn extra Dagan bits to sell on contract. There are two problems with that: You either have to themepark (WoW) it, so that players can't sell these items, feeding the sandbox, or you end up killing the value of them, and no one has to play the game since they'd be so easy to get. Even then, it's not like WoW dropped gear for *everyone* at *every* fight.

Eve is harsh and competitive. There is a lack of resources that places strain on players. We just have to deal with it, it's part of what makes the game interesting.

Not a forum alt. 
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-06-14 12:50:16 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:

So...again, it was no new player. Just an alt of a veteran pretending to be one and who does prey on people like you to make a huge mistake.
How can you be sure about it without him even having asked for the item or the possibility to help the other pilot with his own Dagan?
Meis Aminx
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-06-14 12:56:51 UTC
What none of the fanboys will address:

1. If it was YOUR mission reward, why would CCP let the other player loot it?

2. If YOU didn't loot the needed quest item, then why did it partially complete the objective preventing you from acquiring the item?


I'll tell you why. Bad game design. OP, your initial hunch is not far from the truth.

CCP could do much better, they just won't. They are largely content with catering to their niche crowd.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#38 - 2013-06-14 13:00:55 UTC
Meis Aminx wrote:
What none of the fanboys will address:

1. If it was YOUR mission reward, why would CCP let the other player loot it?

2. If YOU didn't loot the needed quest item, then why did it partially complete the objective preventing you from acquiring the item?


I'll tell you why. Bad game design. OP, your initial hunch is not far from the truth.

CCP could do much better, they just won't. They are largely content with catering to their niche crowd.


No.

1. Stealing is allowed in EVE. He stole the loot.

2. Cause in the first place...don't let people steal your loot.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Meis Aminx
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-06-14 13:25:03 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Meis Aminx wrote:
What none of the fanboys will address:

1. If it was YOUR mission reward, why would CCP let the other player loot it?

2. If YOU didn't loot the needed quest item, then why did it partially complete the objective preventing you from acquiring the item?


I'll tell you why. Bad game design. OP, your initial hunch is not far from the truth.

CCP could do much better, they just won't. They are largely content with catering to their niche crowd.


No.

1. Stealing is allowed in EVE. He stole the loot.

2. Cause in the first place...don't let people steal your loot.


Then it really wasn't his was it? So why did it complete his quest?

Bad design.

You can suckle from the neckbeards at CCP all you want.

The design is exclusionary, not inclusionary. That's the whole premise behind the OP's original post.
Oraac Ensor
#40 - 2013-06-14 13:48:50 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
On top of this, how can you keep arguing that it's not a poor mechanic when a Game Master has to come and reset the quest? Cmon now. Don't be stupid here.

The SoE arc is regarded as part of the new player experience and the GMs will always help a new player who has accidentally messed up, even in situations where the game is working as intended.

You wouldn't get the same sympathy from them if you did something similar in a regular mission.

Oh, and there's no such thing as a "quest" in EVE. A lot of people will get upset if you continue to use that term.