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Scan Probe Deviation
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Tom Dwan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-22 20:27:37 UTC
I'm curious if there's a way to calculate how far off my probes will be based on scan deviation relative to signature strength: ie. with what sig strength can I go from a 16 au scan to a 4 au scan and be relatively sure that the result will be within the new 4 au radius.

I run 7 probes in my scan, so they're usually fairly accurate, I just never really understood how the mechanic worked. If anybody knows and can explain it, or can point me somewhere that it's explained, I'd be greatly appreciative.

TD.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#2 - 2011-10-22 20:44:55 UTC
I can't say for sure whether there is or not, but usually taking more than one step down in scan range is a bad idea. Are you aware that by holding alt and dragging a probe in/out from the center, that it will drag all your other probes in/out also, similarly to holding shift and dragging to move then all in one direction.

If you didn't know that, I understand why you'd be frustrated scanning with 7 probes and wanting to skip a step. Lol

I use 5 probes myself, can pin a sig from 32 au range to 100% strength using core probes in about 3-4 min, scanning skills not maxed. Practice does make a difference Cool

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
Tom Dwan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-22 20:59:03 UTC
Yeah, I've spent a ton of time scanning, and find that using 7 probes allows me to skip probe levels, and usually get a fairly accurate read. I'm down to about 1.5-2 minutes to find a .12 sig or above from start to finish, but I was just hoping that there would be a way that I could lower it even further.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#4 - 2011-10-22 21:02:42 UTC
I've heard a few other explorers scan with 7 also, never tried it myself personally. May have to give it a go if it can save some time.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#5 - 2011-10-22 21:23:19 UTC
I have a theory. It's only a theory, but seems to hold up in practice. It goes like this: base deviation on a probe is half the current range of said probe. Reduce this deviation by the percentages of your appropriate skills and implants to arrive at a modified base deviation. Now, take the signature in question, subtract the current signal strength from 100, then generate a random number between one and the value you arrived at. This is the percentage of the modified base deviation that the result actually deviates in the game.

I've never seen a deviation higher than half the probe range, so I think that part is correct. I always get much larger deviations when I'm dealing with a 3%-10% result than when I'm dealing with an 80%-90% result, and when I'm 95%+ I get next to no deviation at all. I don't know the exact formula, but I'm convinced that the signal strength plays a huge part in how far off your marker can be.

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#6 - 2011-10-23 03:23:07 UTC
Well it also depends on how far off the result is from the center of your formation. If you have it close you can pretty much go 2 notches down (or even 3 i dunno) - if it is more towards the border of your formation the actual location usually is a bit more fuzzy so it might be better to go down only one notch. All depending on Skill level and Implants of course.
Kaptain Kruncher
Gemini Technologies
#7 - 2011-10-24 07:20:40 UTC
7 Probes! What the hell.

The only time I use more than 4 is:

A. In a ship with no scan bonus, no rigs and no Sister's gear.
B. I have no Sister's gear, no rigs and I'm in a ship with no scan bonus.

I skip levels all the time- How I determine when to do that is a trade secret, but I can tell you, it involves no math. 'Cause math skills are completely absent from my RL Character Sheet. I can count to 21 with my clothes off.

Anyway- I have maxed skils and no implants. Soooooo, to you beginner explorers out there- train the skills to 5. If you are really into exploration it is time well spent.

To the OP: I'm not saying yourt wrong or crazy or anything- there are many ways to skin a cat. I see many explorers using 5 and more probes so I'm sure it works. I just think that scanning is not the exact science many think it is.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-10-24 07:38:19 UTC
Usually I'll put 4 probes around a celestial at 4 AU in a + formation, then skip down 2 steps at a time if I get close centered hits.

Also 1.5~2 minutes is good, last time I counted I was taking on average 2.5 minutes per sig while scanning down everything in a low-sec region.
Kaptain Kruncher
Gemini Technologies
#9 - 2011-10-24 07:59:12 UTC
I concur
Cypher Decypher
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-10-24 16:27:59 UTC
My scanning alt has level 4 in probe deviation and 5 in probe strength, with a couple of 3% Prospector implants. I only ever use a standard 5-probe scan method.

Generally, I find that once I've hit 25-30% signal strength I can drop down from eg. 2AU to 0.5AU and get a 100% hit 90% of the time.

Like the other fellers have stated above - the nearness of the signal hit to the centre of your probe pattern seems to help that as well.

In a system of 10-20 sigs (I scan C3 systems a lot) I'll have nailed all the sites & exits in around 15 minutes.

Practice, practice, practice. And experiment with different methods. I use 5 probes, other players use more or less because it suits their style. Find which suits you, and refine it. There are a fair few closely-guarded secrets to scanning, but anyone can discover them for themselves simply by playing around and paying attention to results.
Retmas
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#11 - 2011-10-24 19:45:58 UTC
i personally probe with a full eight, with full sisters gear, rigged buzzard, et al. then again, i live in a COSMOS constellation, where **** could -probably- be harder to track down, but CCP hasnt found a way yet.
Kaptain Kruncher
Gemini Technologies
#12 - 2011-10-25 06:25:58 UTC
Retmas wrote:
i personally probe with a full eight, with full sisters gear, rigged buzzard, et al. then again, i live in a COSMOS constellation, where **** could -probably- be harder to track down, but CCP hasnt found a way yet.


That makes absolutely no sense.
Vicker Lahn'se
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-25 23:54:21 UTC
Why are you resizing probes? I use eight probes. It takes me about thirty seconds to put them into their formation. Once I have the formation set up, it takes less than thirty seconds to scan each signature. Just search YouTube for scanning techniques.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-10-26 03:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Those of you using less probes than your skills allow are doing yourselves a disservice. The algorithms for probing have been changed as off 3 - 4 months ago. Previously, no matter how many probes you used only the 4 with the best signal strengths would return a result. That has changed. Now, ALL probes return results in a summation of the signal strength. I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to comprehend this and still act as if they're somehow more informed/skilled when using only 4 or 5 probes as compared to people using as many as their skills allow.

Can you get results with 4 probes? Yes. Can you get results faster with 7 probes? Yes. You also get more incidental results.

Incidental results - identification of a signature you're not specifically looking for or focusing on. They just happen to be in range of your probes and are identified simply for being in proximity to the signature you're probing.

Don't ban me, bro!
Archmistress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-10-26 03:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Archmistress
I guess there is a comfort zone and it's different for each one of us regarding using the particular number of probes. I feel comfortable with 5, while a lot more clumsy with 7 or 8.
Living in WH assumes a lot of scanning, so go figure.

It takes around 40sec-1min to track the trash signature and around 1.5-2mins for a nasty 0.25 core sig with scanskills at 4-5 and unrigged t3.
Kaptain Kruncher
Gemini Technologies
#16 - 2011-10-27 07:06:16 UTC
Retmas wrote:
then again, i live in a COSMOS constellation, where **** could -probably- be harder to track down, but CCP hasnt found a way yet.


That makes absolutely no sense.


Maybe I should have used the quotes in a more specific manner to justify my response. I could give a rat's ass how many probes people use. If your method works for you... Go forth and prosper.
Vicker Lahn'se
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-01-02 14:05:17 UTC
Kaptain Kruncher wrote:
I could give a rat's ass how many probes people use.


May I have my rat's ass now please?
Orlacc
#18 - 2012-01-02 16:07:56 UTC
I can scan down a sig faster with four probes than you can with eight. So there.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-01-03 01:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Ok, so there are a lot of people commenting on probing here that have no clue what they are doing.
If it takes you 3-4min per sig, youre doing it wrong.
If you EVER have your probes at 32au, youre doing something horribly wrong.

Do yourself a favour and train astrometrics to 5 and use 8 probes.
8 probes allow several formations that are much faster than anything else and you never need to resize them or move them around individually to ID anything and at most, need a slight adjustment to BM everything.

I use the simplest of the 8 probe configs i've come across, mainly cos i'm too lazy to setup the more complicated ones (tho they are faster once setup), and can comfortably probe out a 30 signature WH system in around 12-15min.
(I use RRS probes which have 16min duration and i very very rarely need to relaunch them.)

Here is an example vid i made recently of me doing 24 sigs in 11min.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Ag&feature=player_embedded

I make some stupid mistakes in it but it should give you the general idea.
(Probes are at 8au and 1au.)

EDIT:
The probing toon used has all astro skills at 5, covops 5 and the mid range (6%) prospector implants.
Gear used is sisters expanded launcher, 2x T1 grav cap rigs and RSS core probes.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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GoTspeed
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-01-03 09:27:52 UTC
Thats a very handy tutorial, tnx will try it out.
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