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Situation in Haatomo

Author
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#121 - 2013-06-12 16:37:08 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
it's the use of an archetypically Gallentean ship that amuses me the most. Flying the Provist flag while piloting a Dominix of all things is just absurd.

Don't Provists qualify as absurd in the first place regardless of what they're flying?

Anslo: she's my boss, among other things. And she did get to visit the other day; she was asleep in our shuttle by the time you arrived.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-06-12 16:38:21 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
it's the use of an archetypically Gallentean ship that amuses me the most. Flying the Provist flag while piloting a Dominix of all things is just absurd.

Down with the Gallente! Mercilessly murder all their women and children!

But for Cold Wind's sake don't kill the weapons manufacturers! We need what they're selling!

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-06-12 17:14:45 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
it's the use of an archetypically Gallentean ship that amuses me the most. Flying the Provist flag while piloting a Dominix of all things is just absurd.


Just because they're ridiculous doesn't mean they have bad taste in ships. Besides, the Dominix dates back to the first Gallente-Caldari war, when the Caldari were part of the Federation. That makes it just as much a Caldari battleship as the Scorpion, doesn't it?

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#124 - 2013-06-12 17:26:40 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I see a contradiction in insinuating cowardice on the part of the CEP in making compromises with the CPD and then stating you prefer leaders who will not resort to violence. Given the political and economic situation five years ago, the only alternative to political compromise with the CPD would in fact have been to put down the New Meritocracy by force and to enter into a period of internal unrest until lawful corporate authority was restored in the face of insurrection. Now, if the mobilization order had been given to put down the New Meritocrats just the same as the order had been given to put down the Brothers of Freedom then I would have gladly done so as my duty demanded.

However it was not, and instead the CEP legitimized the formation of the CPD and the office of the Executor, and duty demanded I obey, just as now I will obey the directives of the CEP. While I can understand some of the reasons for such, even if I had my own reservations it was not my place to question but to serve to the best of my ability because I do not live in the Federation or Republic where it is preferred to complain bitterly about the past, engage in, "What could have been," discussion, or partake in historical revisionism, all without actually providing acknowledgement to the requirements of the present day because in the end if wishes were wings we'd all be able to fly, right?

The CEP is supposed to do what is best for the State. Can you honestly say their actions of the last five years have been to our benefit? The Kaalakiota board is most to blame of course -- if they had just let Tibus Heth linger as the CEO of Caldari Constructions, and not replaced Oiritsuu-haani with that worthless criminal, then none of this would have happened. Instead, they gave him control of what was once the proudest of Caldari corporations, and he has dashed it against the rocks. The CEP did the same -- and neither has offered any reason to their stockholders and citizens for their foolhardy act.

The difference is that the CEP went out of their way to give this man more power than any other in the State, when this was the entire reason the State was set up the way it was after the Secession. Now we have seen what happens when people forget the wisdom of the State's founders. You and I both know that if this whole nonsense had stopped even with Heth as CEO of Kaalakiota, this war, and the millions of dead as a result, the destruction of the Caldari economy, and everything else that has tarnished the State would never have transpired. Instead, they rejected the entire purpose for having the CEP in the first place and placed the State in the hands of a mad despot.

It is not treason to point out when the law is being broken, or when the wrong decisions are being made. It is expected of us -- an idea must survive in the marketplace just as any other product. If it cannot take fierce criticism, then it should not be. That is our way, not blind obedience.
Ninavask
The Synenose Accord
#125 - 2013-06-12 17:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninavask
Came to look for situational updates, stayed to read some crazy, left for my sanity.

But seriously has anyone noted Heth or the Navy making a move since?

Dr. Ninavask Revan

Colonist

Alexylva Paradox

The views above are the opinions and beliefs of Dr. Ninavask and do in no way reflect on his employeers or associates at the time of posting.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-06-12 17:47:48 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

The CEP is supposed to do what is best for the State.

Counterwise, CEP is supposed to do what is best for each of corporations, that enter the State.
The problem is, that after the State becomes unified, CEP automatically loses all powers. And now they cling to their remaining power as hard as they can, because it is slipping through their fingers.
The reforms, that Heth-haan brought us, changed the State greatly, but, unfortunately, touched only middle and lower layers of management, while the topmost remained the same. CEOs of CEP realise this, that according to meritocratic principles their positions are to be reviewed.

This is a question of power and authority, that will show what path the State will continue its way: will it be a road to modernization, unification, real meritocracy and victory over Gallente Federation, or it will be descent back to petty warring corporations, tearing Caldari property between separated entities, and the war will continue for unknown amount of time, because degenerated State won't be able to gather enough force to deal with Federation once and forever.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#127 - 2013-06-12 18:01:33 UTC
Those propaganda videos are really good aren't they?

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#128 - 2013-06-12 19:41:50 UTC
Unfortunately, Korsavius, Kaalakiota had to sell off the production unit to stay afloat.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#129 - 2013-06-12 20:53:45 UTC
I'm surprised the recent events haven't lead to a more intense conflict yet. It seems to me that either Heth will be put down by the State or the State will be put down by the consequences of Heth's actions.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-06-12 21:21:48 UTC
So what flavor has Heth selected for his poisoned tea?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#131 - 2013-06-12 23:20:35 UTC
Anslo wrote:

It was their planet first. We had no right taking it from them all those years ago. (1)

Right after we apologize for what we did to them that lead to the first Caldari-Gallente war. I've woken up and seen the hypocrisy in our own home. Maybe it's time you did too. (2)

Signed AFTER we repay our own debts to them for our initial crappy encounters and broker a deal to give them control of Luminaire that both sides are happy with. (3)

And we did the same when we slammed their planet from orbit and killed Gods know how many of their own men, women, and children. Get the hell off your high horse for once and see the situation for what it is. Would Heth have even HATED us if we hadn't been nationalist nuts and attempted to assimilate the Caldari? If we had treated them as equals? If we had let them do their own thing their own way while enjoying the benefits of having such a shrewd ally? (4)

If you don't wanna have sympathy for another human's plight then that's your prerogative. I choose a different path than that of racial and nationalist belligerency. It's time this bullshit ended between the Fed and State. Time to grow up. (5)


1) I am not talking about Caldari Prime here, and yet the meat of your entire counter-argument relies on the idea that this is what I did. *MY* homeworld is not Caldari Prime, for your information. As for Caldari Prime and 200 years old history, I tire of arguing over the moral rights and wrongs of a time none of us were around to see, I deal with what the State has done in my life-time and the last 5 years.

2) Apologies are due to those that deserve them. I will not apologize, nor watch the Union's leadership apologize, to a nation-state that has done everything to avoid deserving that apology. The records from the last two centuries are to stained to leave anyone meriting an apology for anything. We can however live and learn.

You may be alive Anslo, but you still have not learned. Study history more in-debt and take note of all events and their perpetrators, not just the actions of one party in a multi-party history-lesson.

3) You need to pay attention Anslo, such an arrangement already exist, and most people are happy with it's fairness. Heth is not, but Heth, much like his fan-girl Kim, will not be happy until everyone with Federal citizenship stops breathing, and everyone with State citizenship worship him like a god.

I will do you a favor and not assume you think we should cater to their whims and demands as well. The CEP are the power in the State, and the CEP are happy with the arrangements on Caldari Prime. They should be. They are fair, and better than we have had for the last 5 years, better than the State had the last 200 years.

4) Again with the 200 year old history. Seems you have been dipping deep into the State-view-point cool-aid. Things are not quite as simple and one-sided as you seem to think. This is not the place for that conversation Anslo, but if you want to keep arguing around age-old history, feel free to send specific claims and/or inquiries to my mail-box.

5) I am a fully grown Intaki male in my late thirties Anslo, and I have sympathy for a great deal of humans of a great variety of origin. I simply have none left for the crying from State-side people complaining about their troubles in a war they started from an enemy they chose to make for themselves, and the age-old complaints and arch-typical arguments coming from their end. None. Also I tire of the kind of sad, one-sided bias I often see in my own nationals regarding our shared history with the State.

From you I have seen little but your bleeding heart for the State and your naive belief that all we need to do is suck up to the State and make whatever kind of apology or concession they may or may not ask for, and all will be well.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-06-12 23:58:38 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So what flavor has Heth selected for his poisoned tea?

I was under the impression that it only came in one flavour.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#133 - 2013-06-13 00:08:53 UTC
Fed lover known as Stitcher has 3.5 billion isk bounty on him. All those loyal to Heth and the Provists good hunting Haatomo if the CEP try to stop us there.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2013-06-13 00:10:58 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Fed lover known as Stitcher has 3.5 billion isk bounty on him. All those loyal to Heth and the Provists good hunting Haatomo if the CEP try to stop us there.

The vast majority of the bounty on Stitcher's head is from angry, bitter, unattractive, deeply insecure men who are upset that he has more female admirers than they do.

Given that list of traits, you must surely be one of his bounty fund's most generous contributors.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#135 - 2013-06-13 00:25:49 UTC
Quote:
The vast majority of the bounty on Stitcher's head is from angry, bitter, unattractive, deeply insecure men who are upset that he has more female admirers than they do.

Given that list of traits, you must surely be one of his bounty fund's most generous contributors.


Thought you were keeping out of this Ixiris. Situation in Haatomo got nothing to do with Federation zealots.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#136 - 2013-06-13 00:42:31 UTC
Since when is replying to your pointless blathering and ineffectual **** swinging getting involved with the situation in Haatomo.

I feel sorry for Diana Kim; though she is much maligned in this forum for her views, she at least has some principles and you can at least respect her conviction, but being mentioned in a list with you whenever the Provists vs. anti-Provists comes up must be embarassing.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#137 - 2013-06-13 00:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
As it happens, no. TomHorn has contributed precisely 0.0ISK to my bounty.

Interestingly, the most enthusiastic contributor to my bounty has been Jasmin Soulscream . Of the 33 total payments into my bounty, she has added to it on seven separate occasions for a total of 1,273,788,954 ISK, or 35.9% of the entire bounty.

92% of the bounty came from just three people: Soulscream, Toros Culzean, and Flahar Argine, the latter of whom, despite having held his license for less than a year and never having left Hedion University, and despite my never having interacted with him in any way, still apparently wished to part with a billion ISK. I can only assume the name is a proxy.

The rest mostly seem to be the kind of "joke" bounties, keeping tabs and general well-wishes that a capsuleer of some modest notoriety might accrue. So in fact, only 28% of my bounty demonstrably comes from "angry, bitter, unattractive, deeply insecure men who are upset that [I have] more female admirers than they do."

I won't speculate on Jasmin Soulscream's motives for wasting so much money on me, but I am flattered by her attention.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#138 - 2013-06-13 05:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

The CEP is supposed to do what is best for the State. Can you honestly say their actions of the last five years have been to our benefit? The Kaalakiota board is most to blame of course -- if they had just let Tibus Heth linger as the CEO of Caldari Constructions, and not replaced Oiritsuu-haani with that worthless criminal, then none of this would have happened. Instead, they gave him control of what was once the proudest of Caldari corporations, and he has dashed it against the rocks. The CEP did the same -- and neither has offered any reason to their stockholders and citizens for their foolhardy act.

The difference is that the CEP went out of their way to give this man more power than any other in the State, when this was the entire reason the State was set up the way it was after the Secession. Now we have seen what happens when people forget the wisdom of the State's founders. You and I both know that if this whole nonsense had stopped even with Heth as CEO of Kaalakiota, this war, and the millions of dead as a result, the destruction of the Caldari economy, and everything else that has tarnished the State would never have transpired. Instead, they rejected the entire purpose for having the CEP in the first place and placed the State in the hands of a mad despot.

It is not treason to point out when the law is being broken, or when the wrong decisions are being made. It is expected of us -- an idea must survive in the marketplace just as any other product. If it cannot take fierce criticism, then it should not be. That is our way, not blind obedience.


The concept that there exists a marketplace of ideas may perhaps be an Ishukone way and an Ishukone philosophy; but I was never Ishukone. I was born, raised and trained by the doctrines of the Peace and Order Unit and instructed in a Sukuuvestaa Executive College where I was taught and prescribed to the philosophy that business is not about the free and open exchange of ideas -- Rather, Business is War and War is Business. The merit or value of not only an idea or concept, but also a person, a corporation, a culture, a nation is not determined through debate, discussion or dialectics but through conflict, competition and actions.

What you may assert as blind obedience is simply seeking to knowing ones duty and obligations, fully and totally as required by both formal legal obligations and informal social precepts, that it becomes nothing more than second nature. As such, it seems rather clear to me:

- Heth-haan instigated an illegal labour revolt on Piak in violation of his legal corporate obligations and duty to Kaalakiota. As such, Oiritsuu-haani, as CEO of Kaalakiota corporation was doing her duty in seeking to enforce the legal corporate authority of Kaalakiota corporation against a criminal dissident. Duty demanded that he either be arrested or terminated.

- When Heth-haan was appointed CEO of Kaalakiota by the Board of Directors then Duty demanded that his directives be followed by the employee-citizens of Kaalakiota.

- When Heth-haan was given the position and mandate of the State Executor by the CEP then Duty demanded that all citizens in the State abide by the instructions of the Executor. This included the conduct of armed conflict against the Federation.

If the CEP rescinds Heth-haan's position as Executor and the Kaalakiota Board and shareholders decide upon another leader, then no obligations or Duty exist to follow Tibus Heth and indeed, if such were the situation, and he decided to attack the Federation then he is in fact a terrorist committing an act of insurrection against the Lawful Authority of the CEP.

The irony here is that Tibus Heth, with the New Meritocracy, actually did as you believed in and sought to promote it in this, "Marketplace of ideas" while providing fierce criticisms of the corporate system and the founding principles of the State. I do not need a marketplace of ideas when I have my Duty and am able to divorce my personal desires in prosecuting it. Which is more than can be said for those who abandoned it when the CEP granted Tibus Heth the legal position of Executor or those today who abandon it in supporting Tibus Heth without the apparent legal authority of the CEP.

But I believe a citizen must do what they must according to Duty and the Law. Not what they may wish.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-06-13 07:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
TomHorn wrote:
Thought you were keeping out of this Ixiris.

I have resolved not to intervene in the situation in a military or political manner unless the CEP asks me to.

That doesn't mean I can't make commentary on it on the IGS, particularly if it means making fun of cowardly, hypocritical Provist shills and the nonsense they spout.

(Just in case that flew way over your head, which given the general quality of your posts seems rather likely, the cowardly, hypocritical Provist shill is you.)

TomHorn wrote:
Situation in Haatomo got nothing to do with Federation zealots.

The fact that you are unable to appreciate the irony in calling me a zealot when I've publicly agreed to stay out of the situation for now and encouraged my countrymen to do so while you're actively sponsoring treason against the Caldari State so that you can execute an illegal invasion of another nation's sovereign territory shows that you are categorically unintelligent, intentionally ignorant, or more likely, both.

That, or you're upset that I called you out on being bitter, angry, ugly and insecure.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#140 - 2013-06-13 08:10:56 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The fact that you are unable to appreciate the irony in calling me a zealot when I've publicly agreed to stay out of the situation for now and encouraged my countrymen to do so while you're actively sponsoring treason against the Caldari State so that you can execute an illegal invasion of another nation's sovereign territory shows that you are categorically unintelligent, intentionally ignorant, or more likely, both.


Actually...since much of Caldari Prime is under Caldari jurisdiction, he's actually advocating an invasion of the Caldari State.