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Situation in Haatomo

Author
Cyrus Alabel
Azure Wrath
#101 - 2013-06-12 02:42:09 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Update - Heth and his cronies have just been called out as terrorists by the CEP.

What is going on?
Are their in their mind?
To call military operation a "terrorism"?
Maybe when we first captured Caldari Prime was terrorism too?
When we were defending CN Shiigeru against gallentean attack, was it terrorism too?
When we captured Intaki, and all other federal systems, was it terrorism?

Do they even know, what 'terrorism' is at all?
We are at WAR, and gallente are our enemies!
We must fight them to protect our homes, our relatives, our citizens and our corporations!
You can't be protected, if you call those, who are fighting for you terrorists.

Our enemy is out there, in the Luminaire, and in the Villore, not in CC station. It is OUR forces that occupy our station, and these forces are fighting for ALL OF OUR CITIZENS! For whole our future!

We shouldn't fight among each other. There are gallente scumbags to shoot at!

So, lets gather all together and smash them down, so hard, so they will never raise their greedy hands again at our property and our lives!

For the State! For Heth! For Victory !!


Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#102 - 2013-06-12 11:47:11 UTC
Anslo wrote:
It doesn't work like that. We shoot them, they complain. They shoot us, we complain, etc. It doesn't work like that at ALL for anyone who has half a brain. Who the hell are you to say, as a member of the Federation, that someone doesn't have the RIGHT to complain about the destruction brought upon their own people from a war led by a madman holding a station hostage? Where the HELL do you think you have the authority to tell them what to do?

The CPD and TD are an issue, fine. But don't curse the whole of the State for the actions of the few.


The actions of the few?

Do you recall, Anslo, five years ago when this war began? I do.

Putting it short, the whole of the State was all to happy to engage in this war and for a time, they enjoyed the fruits of their successful annexation of our lands. MY HOME may not have suffered much. But it's only the tip of the iceberg here. There are billions of people across the war-zone that can inform you of how kind and merciful the State's forces were to those they had pressed under their boots.

I want this war to end, but before that I want two more things.

First of all, I want weeping State-apologist Federals like you to wake up and smell the hypocrisy of lamenting the Federation's 'meddling in State affairs' when that same State has numerous crimes to account for. It's all well and good to be angry that we are meddlesome when the target of that unwanted attention is blameless, but that is not the reality here. I would like you, and every other apologist out there to keep this in mind and realize this war has two sides, and that if you must cry about it, crying for only one is naive at best, foolish at worst.

Secondly I want to see there be a measure of closure for both sides in the war if we are going to end it at all. From where I'm sitting I will ultimately have few problems with keeping the war alive for decades or centuries to come. It is a war of attrition and one we can easily win. It would however be utterly wasteful as far as lives are concerned and I am not arrogant enough to assume that just because I won't have a problem with handling it, the rest of the Union will have no problems either. They will. If the people had to vote for either resolving this war in an honorable manner in a couple of years or go on fighting like this for the next century or two, I'm confident we all know what option will be chosen, even if option two was guaranteed to end in victory and the end of the State's existence.

Let me clarify on closure - simply put, the resolving of any and all outstanding grievances between our nations, far as they can be resolved. To begin with, the State can return the millions they kidnapped from the transports leaving State space half a decade ago, and reimburse the other millions they robbed blind at the same time. That would be a good start. I'm confident the State has their terms for us, and at the end of it, when it's all done, THEN we can have a peace treaty signed, and ratified, and honored.

Hopefully for at least the next century, until another moron starts another revolution somewhere.

Until that day Anslo, until that day I have no sympathy at all for any complaints the State could ever raise against us, and even less so for Federals who buy into them. The State made their bed when they declared war on and invaded us, now, they lie in it. It is not our problem nor our fault that it's a very uncomfortable place to be.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#103 - 2013-06-12 13:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
All those loyal to the State join Heth and the provists.

First if we have to we will win the battle of Haatomo and then we move on to Caldari Prime to remove Federation control of our home planet.

We will follow Heth to Caldari Prime. Heth the Victor.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#104 - 2013-06-12 14:02:26 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
All those loyal to the State join Heth and the provists.

First if we have to we will win the battle of Haatomo and then we move on to New Caldari Prime to remove Federation control of our home planet.

We will follow Heth to New Caldari Prime. Heth the Victor.


You make war upon the CEP and the Navy. Just what State are you fighting for?
Anslo
Scope Works
#105 - 2013-06-12 14:13:29 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
Do you recall, Anslo, five years ago when this war began? I do.
Putting it short, the whole of the State was all to happy to engage in this war and for a time, they enjoyed the fruits of their successful annexation of our lands. MY HOME may not have suffered much. But it's only the tip of the iceberg here. There are billions of people across the war-zone that can inform you of how kind and merciful the State's forces were to those they had pressed under their boots.

It was their planet first. We had no right taking it from them all those years ago.

Quote:
First of all, I want weeping State-apologist Federals like you to wake up and smell the hypocrisy of lamenting the Federation's 'meddling in State affairs' when that same State has numerous crimes to account for. It's all well and good to be angry that we are meddlesome when the target of that unwanted attention is blameless, but that is not the reality here. I would like you, and every other apologist out there to keep this in mind and realize this war has two sides, and that if you must cry about it, crying for only one is naive at best, foolish at worst.

Right after we apologize for what we did to them that lead to the first Caldari-Gallente war. I've woken up and seen the hypocrisy in our own home. Maybe it's time you did too.

Quote:
Secondly I want to see there be a measure of closure for both sides in the war if we are going to end it at all. From where I'm sitting I will ultimately have few problems with keeping the war alive for decades or centuries to come. It is a war of attrition and one we can easily win. It would however be utterly wasteful as far as lives are concerned and I am not arrogant enough to assume that just because I won't have a problem with handling it, the rest of the Union will have no problems either. They will. If the people had to vote for either resolving this war in an honorable manner in a couple of years or go on fighting like this for the next century or two, I'm confident we all know what option will be chosen, even if option two was guaranteed to end in victory and the end of the State's existence.

Let me clarify on closure - simply put, the resolving of any and all outstanding grievances between our nations, far as they can be resolved. To begin with, the State can return the millions they kidnapped from the transports leaving State space half a decade ago, and reimburse the other millions they robbed blind at the same time. That would be a good start. I'm confident the State has their terms for us, and at the end of it, when it's all done, THEN we can have a peace treaty signed, and ratified, and honored.

Signed AFTER we repay our own debts to them for our initial crappy encounters and broker a deal to give them control of Luminaire that both sides are happy with.

Quote:
Until that day Anslo, until that day I have no sympathy at all for any complaints the State could ever raise against us, and even less so for Federals who buy into them. The State made their bed when they declared war on and invaded us, now, they lie in it. It is not our problem nor our fault that it's a very uncomfortable place to be.

And we did the same when we slammed their planet from orbit and killed Gods know how many of their own men, women, and children. Get the hell off your high horse for once and see the situation for what it is. Would Heth have even HATED us if we hadn't been nationalist nuts and attempted to assimilate the Caldari? If we had treated them as equals? If we had let them do their own thing their own way while enjoying the benefits of having such a shrewd ally?

If you don't wanna have sympathy for another human's plight then that's your prerogative. I choose a different path than that of racial and nationalist belligerency. It's time this bullshit ended between the Fed and State. Time to grow up.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#106 - 2013-06-12 14:16:39 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
All those loyal to the State join Heth and the provists.

First if we have to we will win the battle of Haatomo and then we move on to New Caldari Prime to remove Federation control of our home planet.

We will follow Heth to New Caldari Prime. Heth the Victor.

You go right ahead and take that Provist fleet deeper into the State to "take back" a completely uncontested planet that you've had control over for years and years.

The rest us will be sitting on the sidelines laughing our asses off while we wait for you to learn how to read a map.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-06-12 14:18:08 UTC
BloodBird wrote:


I want this war to end, but before that I want two more things.



You know, what shall be done to end this war.

Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#108 - 2013-06-12 14:21:36 UTC
Quote:
You make war upon the CEP and the Navy. Just what State are you fighting for?


We fight for the Caldari people and the State. The CEP are appeasors and collaborators who have only the sole interest of their own corporations.

They have made war upon Executor and the Provists.We have not declared war on them. We aim to defeat them have the Executor Tibus Heth lead the Caldari State into stronger better future.

Heth the Victor

o7
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-06-12 14:21:52 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
You know, what shall be done to end this war.

Federation must be destroyed.

Not going to happen outside of your vivid delusions.

Get help.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#110 - 2013-06-12 14:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
It's people like you two that makes painting the State in a good light hard...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2013-06-12 14:28:58 UTC
Anslo wrote:
It's people like you two that makes painting the State in a good like hard...

Talk to Verin and Pieter more. They more than balance the scale.

It's the weight of their manly stubble, you see.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#112 - 2013-06-12 14:29:26 UTC
Quote:
Not going to happen outside of your vivid delusions.

Get help.


Federation zealot get on your knees and grovel you scum.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#113 - 2013-06-12 14:35:39 UTC
Anslo wrote:
It's people like you two that makes painting the State in a good like hard...


What's the easiest thing to spot in any decent stew?

The scum on the surface.

We've all got our nutcases. The Provists are just currently taking the biscuit for bloodyminded and loudmouthed idiocy.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2013-06-12 14:38:09 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Federation zealot get on your knees and grovel you scum.

Why should I? Your petulant demands don't impress me.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#115 - 2013-06-12 14:39:55 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Anslo wrote:
It's people like you two that makes painting the State in a good like hard...


What's the easiest thing to spot in any decent stew?

The scum on the surface.

We've all got our nutcases. The Provists are just currently taking the biscuit for bloodyminded and loudmouthed idiocy.


Ain't they just. Hey, you're Morwen's friend right? She called you something else...I forget. Wanted to bring you out once. But anyway, nice to meet you (well, 'meet')!

But you're right, we all got our nut jobs and there's no shame in admitting it. The Fed have nationalists/xenophobic isolationists. The State has the CPD and Templis. The Amarr have crazy Holders and Slavers who still see Minmatar as animals. The Minmatar have Shakorites.

If we just keep these looney's in check, we live a relatively peaceful existence. But sometimes, one gets loose and decides to take over a station and name himself Queen of the Castle.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#116 - 2013-06-12 15:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

Our leaders are supposed to lead, not be held captive to the mob. This is not the Federation or the Republic. This was a man who was a glorified forklift operator two months before he "took" power -- in that for no apparent reason they handed over the reins of the State to an unqualified moron. How many billions of our fellow Caldari have suffered because of that mistake? How many trillions of ISK have been burn in perpetuating this absurd situation?



Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

I prefer a leader that realizes that force is not the most effective method in maintaining control, but a last resort. The inability of Kaalakiota to control the media in the wake of that incident and their panic in dumping Caldari Constructions stock is what got us into this whole mess. Wiser minds would have dealt with the whole situation quietly -- and permanently.


I see a contradiction in insinuating cowardice on the part of the CEP in making compromises with the CPD and then stating you prefer leaders who will not resort to violence. Given the political and economic situation five years ago, the only alternative to political compromise with the CPD would in fact have been to put down the New Meritocracy by force and to enter into a period of internal unrest until lawful corporate authority was restored in the face of insurrection. Now, if the mobilization order had been given to put down the New Meritocrats just the same as the order had been given to put down the Brothers of Freedom then I would have gladly done so as my duty demanded.

However it was not, and instead the CEP legitimized the formation of the CPD and the office of the Executor, and duty demanded I obey, just as now I will obey the directives of the CEP. While I can understand some of the reasons for such, even if I had my own reservations it was not my place to question but to serve to the best of my ability because I do not live in the Federation or Republic where it is preferred to complain bitterly about the past, engage in, "What could have been," discussion, or partake in historical revisionism, all without actually providing acknowledgement to the requirements of the present day because in the end if wishes were wings we'd all be able to fly, right?

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#117 - 2013-06-12 15:31:10 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Quote:
Not going to happen outside of your vivid delusions.

Get help.


Federation zealot get on your knees and grovel you scum.


If you are that hard up for getting serviced, there are easier and less violent methods available to you.

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-06-12 16:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Horn spent most of last night in Haatomo locking people up and attracting suspect flags, playing docking games and generally being an irrelevant nuisance. Curiously and with no small amount of hypocrisy, his vessel of choice for this escapade was a Dominix.

I suggest ignoring him.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-06-12 16:27:43 UTC
It's funny how much these two Provist stooges talk about being ready and willing to die for their dear leader, yet take every single excuse they can find not to get involved in a fight.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-06-12 16:31:08 UTC
it's the use of an archetypically Gallentean ship that amuses me the most. Flying the Provist flag while piloting a Dominix of all things is just absurd.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders