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Cynoship nerf
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Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-06-12 06:53:34 UTC
Quote:
I am not certain if you simply hate miners, or had not considered how this would cancel out of existence for ratting.

Sure, you just killed mining.

I wanted to make the ability to evade a threat effort based, but you took it to the next level by adding a minimum warning time requirement.

You can't really apply this to ratters, because they use most of the same ships as those hunting the ratters do. Extended align time? They would be aligning out of the ratting area while you were at best trying to align towards it.
Assuming you knew exactly where they were, of course.
Anchor for ratting? Makes no sense.
Anchor in order to use weapons maybe? Again, while you are setting yours up they are breaking camp and leaving.

No CNR kill mail for you.


You misunderstood somewhat - as I did not provide all details as this is not about that particular topic. And good luck with finding reasons on hating miners, because I dont.

The first and foremost point of it was giving a chance to tacklers to catch miners (be it botters or real players that do have local intel) - while giving the actual mining ships a lot more HP (or a decent work around alike the "tanky ones") so they all truly have the beef to mining ships so if tackled and under heavy fire, they still have chance to hold out a long while for calling help. Help/reinforcements fast enough -> No kill mail for you (as the aggressor)/you run. DPS high enough/faster than help arrival -> Kill mail for you.

All hypothetical.

Yes yes, people can already tank in specific Exumers. It was all just about a small change regarding the frequent debate on molested people who can't catch anything due to local or whatever.

And the anchored<->align time subject wouldn't really work like that as you are "anchored". Sure, if you unlock yourself early enough and start pushing drives for a warpout, good to go. It is just to be a slower. Has to be well balanced though - but that's CCP math right there as it is all about mass/acceleration etc.

And where did I mention ratting/ratters? Unless you are assuming some Exhumar-Ratter, fine, but this was strictly more about the mining ships for that case, predominantly; An example and something for field testing if ever on a test server, not for immediate implementation to the current game.

As if EVE of the players would survive such, lol :D.

In this case though, Exumers and such ships would need to be bigger, cumbersome and have a bit more of a storage + HP. Therefore, they are already risking a lot as the ship is already expensive and would have expensive mods to eat ore and tank better.

Nonetheless, this is not the right thread as I am not elaborating on every single factor. It is about cyno after all.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Mark Androcius
#22 - 2013-06-12 10:37:20 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Point to which hole on the doll that the cyno ship violated.



Geezus, this is getting durptarded, the amount of repetition in some peoples lingo is just.....

Think up something original for goodness sake, omg, i can not watch this severe lack of originality youth these days are suffering from.

On and on using the same comment, on Youtube "First comment" or "240p we meet again", STFU PLEASE!!!!!!!!

THINK UP SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Ludvig Von Baithoven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-06-12 11:06:36 UTC
^^

Agreed

Nothing makes my eyes bleed more than nerds thinking they are cool by repeatedly stating the same thing one original person posted sometime in the past.

I wouldn't mind actually skinning the First comment people alive.
If only it weren't illegal.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#24 - 2013-06-12 11:29:55 UTC
One possible "balance point" could be to somehow base how much mass can jump to the cyno based off the size of the ship that lit the cyno. This could be either dealt with as a wormhole like mechanic where the cyno will "collapse" based off the ship size or each ship could cause the cyno boat to lose cap based off of mass. The latter mechanic proposal would bring the ability to negate a cyno via neuts, or to keep it up via cap transfers. This would force more expensive cyno boats onto the field to bridge larger ships and larger fleets.

People have previously brought up that it's a way to raid the enemies territory, so because of that, the covert cyno should be able to bridge have a better mass to ship/cap ratio then the regular cyno. You want to go kill a ratting carrier? Do it black ops style.

Back to what the OP brought up about dropping the max lockable targets to 0, it has merit. The people who are hotdropping would simply have to field 2 ships instead of 1 to do a hot drop. 1 to tackle and 1 to cyno.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#25 - 2013-06-12 11:57:15 UTC
Well if you want stop hotdrops then you just prevent a ship that goes thru a bridge from being able to activate any mods for "x" amount of time. Nobody is going to jump a fleet/gang into a potential combat situation if the ships have to sit there helpless. Bridging would then become a strategic movement of ships rather than a tactical attack option. Would **** alot of people off though. Plenty of folks that like to be able to bring overwhelming force on an unsuspecting target (be it an enemy fleet or lone ratter). Whether that is good or bad probably depends on what side of the killmail you are on.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#26 - 2013-06-12 12:50:17 UTC
You are a brave, brave man for suggesting changes to the cyno!!! Adjustments to cyno operations could cause some positive changes but you won't get any support from the NS crowd.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#27 - 2013-06-12 13:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
hotdropping is fine, all you do is basically bypass local intel, which is OP anyways.

People used to scout everything, adjacent systems, systems 2j out, all station/staging systems with potential hostiles - it got impossible to kill anyone who is preparing himself a bit without a hotdrop.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-06-12 13:37:40 UTC
Ludvig Von Baithoven wrote:
^^

Agreed

Nothing makes my eyes bleed more than nerds thinking they are cool by repeatedly stating the same thing one original person posted sometime in the past.

I wouldn't mind actually skinning the First comment people alive.
If only it weren't illegal.


Certainly has to do with the meme mentality and internet oneliners (duh). While sometimes funny, it does get annoying over time, but that is probably also why you will keep seeing it here. As said before, EVE community tends to push douchebaggery. That's the problem also when you have a like counter these days.

It wouldn't be all half as bad if we had some more general forum modding being a bit more stricter - at least here at F&ID area.
(and a mod who would even wave his angry wand at us for going offtopic a bit :D!)

Oh well.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#29 - 2013-06-12 14:44:52 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
hotdropping is fine, all you do is basically bypass local intel, which is OP anyways.

People used to scout everything, adjacent systems, systems 2j out, all station/staging systems with potential hostiles - it got impossible to kill anyone who is preparing himself a bit without a hotdrop.

THIS.

Real gameplay strips away all the "Could Happens" and the other ineffective possible tactics.

The reality is, Hot Dropping is the only thing that threatens too many economic assets. Remove it or effectively cripple hot dropping, and PvE in null becomes demonstrably safer than high sec.

Reward indexes will drop as a reflection of this.

Think about it, if they can't catch you, why even force people to undock? Just buy the mining or ratting ship and have ISK automatically be fed into your character over time, same as the skill points.
Logging in won't be significant either.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Rune Scorpio
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#30 - 2013-06-19 15:00:14 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
hotdropping is fine, all you do is basically bypass local intel, which is OP anyways.

People used to scout everything, adjacent systems, systems 2j out, all station/staging systems with potential hostiles - it got impossible to kill anyone who is preparing himself a bit without a hotdrop.

THIS.

Real gameplay strips away all the "Could Happens" and the other ineffective possible tactics.

The reality is, Hot Dropping is the only thing that threatens too many economic assets. Remove it or effectively cripple hot dropping, and PvE in null becomes demonstrably safer than high sec.

Reward indexes will drop as a reflection of this.

Think about it, if they can't catch you, why even force people to undock? Just buy the mining or ratting ship and have ISK automatically be fed into your character over time, same as the skill points.
Logging in won't be significant either.


I'm not against hotdrops but the gank mechanic it has attached with the near instant jump to a tackled target. If you can't hold the ship in place for 30 seconds or so to get a second toon with a cyno on grid you dont deserve that kill.
If people see a solo guy on intel and what he's in and figure they can take it solo there might be a whole lot more guys sticking around that figure they can take a guy in their pve ship.
If they dont dock pve ships with neuts in local they are gonna derp their way out of station irregardless of cyno changes. Claiming you wont get kills because they will hide just doesnt sound reasonable.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#31 - 2013-06-19 15:21:37 UTC
Delete cynos!

Allow caps to jump themselves!

Beware of oppressors!

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#32 - 2013-06-19 15:47:03 UTC
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Real gameplay strips away all the "Could Happens" and the other ineffective possible tactics.

The reality is, Hot Dropping is the only thing that threatens too many economic assets. Remove it or effectively cripple hot dropping, and PvE in null becomes demonstrably safer than high sec.

Reward indexes will drop as a reflection of this.

Think about it, if they can't catch you, why even force people to undock? Just buy the mining or ratting ship and have ISK automatically be fed into your character over time, same as the skill points.
Logging in won't be significant either.


I'm not against hotdrops but the gank mechanic it has attached with the near instant jump to a tackled target. If you can't hold the ship in place for 30 seconds or so to get a second toon with a cyno on grid you dont deserve that kill.
If people see a solo guy on intel and what he's in and figure they can take it solo there might be a whole lot more guys sticking around that figure they can take a guy in their pve ship.
If they dont dock pve ships with neuts in local they are gonna derp their way out of station irregardless of cyno changes. Claiming you wont get kills because they will hide just doesnt sound reasonable.

So now it will take two accounts to AFK cloak effectively.

Claiming they will use Amazing Intel™ to avoid risks, with zero effort required to obtain it 'just doesnt sound reasonable'...
but it happens.

Especially if the bar to threaten with now requires this additional effort and is even more obvious by intel with double the listed presence to warn from.

This would shift the balance towards the PvE defenders favor.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#33 - 2013-06-19 16:05:02 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Point to which hole on the doll that the cyno ship violated.



Geezus, this is getting durptarded, the amount of repetition in some peoples lingo is just.....

Think up something original for goodness sake, omg, i can not watch this severe lack of originality youth these days are suffering from.

On and on using the same comment, on Youtube "First comment" or "240p we meet again", STFU PLEASE!!!!!!!!

THINK UP SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, so people can ***** about the same **** repeatedly but I can't just repost something which shows how little attention should be paid to this thread. How about this, you can go **** yourself.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#34 - 2013-06-19 16:49:46 UTC
Just another example of a have-not getting mad at the haves.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#35 - 2013-06-19 17:02:35 UTC
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Getting a little boring having solo ships wander around and hotdropping 10+ guys onto solo cruisers. I think if a ship lights a cyno it should not be able to commit any hostile actions. Should be easy enough to make the ship have a maximum lockable target value of 0 when a cynosural module is activated. Gives a few seconds to try and warp off before getting blobbed.
It wouldn't have much effect on dropping into an engaged fight either as things are already tackled, but it will slightly negate the guys that only want risk free kills and never take fleets on roams to hunt targets for fear of running into a similar sized fleet that spotted them. "Alright I'm going to lose. Cyno lit" is far too common.
Some guys will literally go roaming on unaffiliated alts looking for fights, and as soon as something geos wrong they will bridge in all their toons over in dps alpha ships and stomp up. Usually if there's a drop as soon as the fight engages the tackled ship is dead before other guys that were already in system even land meaning the best way to pad a killboard is to sit on a titan, and maybe play another game until it's time to play eve for a few minutes.

Hotdropping is the instant action button for eve where you have a group of guys humping a titan for hours on end and then bashing their heads against their keyboards for 10 seconds.

I can agree to this on one condition:

Only people docked in an outpost can see the local list.
Or people who are currently behind the shield of a POS, but only for those systems with no outpost handy.

That way it takes teamwork and effort to have intel too.
Lord Adrastus
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#36 - 2013-06-19 17:04:43 UTC
It pleases me to know that my work does not go unnoticed :)
Rune Scorpio
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#37 - 2013-06-19 20:03:55 UTC
Mary Annabelle wrote:
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Getting a little boring having solo ships wander around and hotdropping 10+ guys onto solo cruisers. I think if a ship lights a cyno it should not be able to commit any hostile actions. Should be easy enough to make the ship have a maximum lockable target value of 0 when a cynosural module is activated. Gives a few seconds to try and warp off before getting blobbed.
It wouldn't have much effect on dropping into an engaged fight either as things are already tackled, but it will slightly negate the guys that only want risk free kills and never take fleets on roams to hunt targets for fear of running into a similar sized fleet that spotted them. "Alright I'm going to lose. Cyno lit" is far too common.
Some guys will literally go roaming on unaffiliated alts looking for fights, and as soon as something geos wrong they will bridge in all their toons over in dps alpha ships and stomp up. Usually if there's a drop as soon as the fight engages the tackled ship is dead before other guys that were already in system even land meaning the best way to pad a killboard is to sit on a titan, and maybe play another game until it's time to play eve for a few minutes.

Hotdropping is the instant action button for eve where you have a group of guys humping a titan for hours on end and then bashing their heads against their keyboards for 10 seconds.

I can agree to this on one condition:

Only people docked in an outpost can see the local list.
Or people who are currently behind the shield of a POS, but only for those systems with no outpost handy.

That way it takes teamwork and effort to have intel too.


All that would turn into is a bunch of people recycling trial alts to have local. Shouldnt this be reserved for the no local threads?
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#38 - 2013-06-19 20:17:29 UTC
Rune Scorpio wrote:
All that would turn into is a bunch of people recycling trial alts to have local. Shouldnt this be reserved for the no local threads?

Suggesting it should be a seperate thread? That's like saying you pay for a sandwich, but the bread is a seperate charge.

Hot Dropping- Local chat - and cloaking are the unholy three way. They affect each other to the point where you must acknowledge any change to one as having an obvious impact on the others.

Without hot dropping, pve targets maybe just fit a tank, maybe a couple of stabs, and they just leave if they think more trouble than they can handle is coming. At no point can they be stopped or hunted, but you might catch one of they screw up.

Without cloaking, as an untraceable defense, any threats to pve would just get swept out the door as needed, and sov blocks would be solidly entrenched.

Without local, players would need to actually work together to generate intel up to a level that would be usable. Only a fool points out this intel does not exist reliably, since local prevents it being in demand. Only versions covering regions and multiple systems exists, and those work quite nicely, thank you very much.

I want to do mining without the absolutes present, so it can be fun.
Rune Scorpio
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#39 - 2013-06-19 23:15:01 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Just another example of a have-not getting mad at the haves.


ISK is a non issue when it comes to balancing game mechanics. Thanks for the bump though.
Rune Scorpio
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#40 - 2013-06-19 23:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rune Scorpio
Ludvig Von Baithoven wrote:
^^

Agreed

Nothing makes my eyes bleed more than nerds thinking they are cool by repeatedly stating the same thing one original person posted sometime in the past.

I wouldn't mind actually skinning the First comment people alive.
If only it weren't illegal.


I typically ignore them. Maybe they think up something good while they sit and wait for replies that dont come in.
First post people crack me up though. Always reminds me of the collegehumor vid
If business meetings were like an internet forum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzgEi_u9-88&feature=youtube_gdata_player