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Dueling question... How a 1v1 can quickly turn into a 1v2 or 3 Please Help
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Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-06 17:43:04 UTC
So I me and another guy were both in cruisers in highsec... we decided to duel so I sent him a duel request, he accepted and the duel began... 30 seconds later and ishtar and mega warping and start shooting me. concord did nothing and they were showing in my limited engagement counter. I never accepted a duel with these people nor do i have kill rights... can some explain how this is possible.... and does this me that eve the duels are safe as 1v1's
Nagamor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-06-06 18:05:21 UTC
i've only read the rules for Duels as noted in the patch notes when it released but this sounds like an exploit perhaps of fleeted members taking advantage of the duel like when you have engagement rights vs a suspect.

I would review the rules of Dueling and probably submit a bug report.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#3 - 2013-06-07 04:34:01 UTC
Did they spam you with duel requests and you just clicked through them to concentrate on the pew?

I've never used the duel system so just a guess.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Othran
Route One
#4 - 2013-06-07 07:09:49 UTC
They're in the same corp as the guy in the Navy Omen. I don't bother with duelling crap myself but that's probably the reason.
Vaihto Ehto
#5 - 2013-06-07 10:36:52 UTC
Your mistake was trying to PVP in hisec.

Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums?
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#6 - 2013-06-07 12:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: l0rd carlos
Here is the killmail: http://zkillboard.com/detail/30990257/
______

Look at your logs.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-06-07 15:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
IbanezLaney wrote:
Did they spam you with duel requests and you just clicked through them to concentrate on the pew?

I've never used the duel system so just a guess.





Naw I was the one who sent the dueling request.. and I didnt accept any others.


l0rd carlos wrote:
Here is the killmail: http://zkillboard.com/detail/30990257/
______

Look at your logs.


Yes I saw the killmail.....but that doesnt help me figure out how the other two were able to engage me
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-07 15:46:49 UTC
Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think?
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-06-07 16:35:17 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think?


Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work.
Nagamor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-06-07 20:12:49 UTC
Baren wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think?


Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work.


On the contrary. I think the mechanics were made perfectly clear, I think like everyone else is suggesting, you inadvertently flagged yourself to the other aggressors.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-06-07 20:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Nagamor wrote:
Baren wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think?


Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work.


On the contrary. I think the mechanics were made perfectly clear, I think like everyone else is suggesting, you inadvertently flagged yourself to the other aggressors.

and how would I have done this

I know I did not accept a duel with them, nor did i target or activate a module

Please I really dont care about the loss or anything.. I just want Help figuring this out
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#12 - 2013-06-07 21:15:44 UTC
I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.

I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.

The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.

Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.)

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-06-07 22:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Cearain wrote:
I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.

I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.

The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.

Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.)



Thank you, for putting in actuall thought into your response.

but lets say i did at them, and for some reason I was not concorded. That would still me they were suspect. But like you said being suspect does not allow the suspects corpmates to attack you and it also doesnt make you suspect.

That means i would have needed to previously attacked both his corp mates when they were suspect.

as for my drones. they were set to passive..

they both warped in and attacked at the same time.

my drones would have needed time to fly and at each of them first.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#14 - 2013-06-07 23:38:51 UTC
Baren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.

I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.

The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.

Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.)



Thank you, for putting in actuall thought into your response.

but lets say i did at them, and for some reason I was not concorded. That would still me they were suspect. But like you said being suspect does not allow the suspects corpmates to attack you and it also doesnt make you suspect.

That means i would have needed to previously attacked both his corp mates when they were suspect.

as for my drones. they were set to passive..

they both warped in and attacked at the same time.

my drones would have needed time to fly and at each of them first.


I am not expert at high sec rules by any stretch and what follows is me half saying what I think the rules are and half wondering if I am getting them right myself.

If they were repping him they would be suspect to you which would allow you to attack them without concord. But you would need to attack both of them for them both to attack you without concord. I am not sure if they would show up as a red box to you if they were just repping your target. If you then attacked them they could attack back.

But if you didn't attack them then the only thing that makes sense is if you were suspect. Like if you took from a can in the last 15 minutes or something.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#15 - 2013-06-08 08:51:14 UTC
Did you fit an EM and Therm hardener on that specifically because he was flying an ONI?
Tsk tsk, no honour in these duels anymore. Blink

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-06-08 14:40:02 UTC
feihcsiM wrote:
Did you fit an EM and Therm hardener on that specifically because he was flying an ONI?
Tsk tsk, no honour in these duels anymore. Blink


actuall we both docked up and new what the other was flyinf ofcourse im going to change my hardeners
UKBigWolf
#17 - 2013-06-08 19:22:41 UTC
If you wasn't suspect, or you never attacked them first, nor did you accept any further duals... then, off the top of my head, I can't think of any way they should of legally attacked you under the current rules without being under a war-dec
Maru Sha
The Department of Justice
#18 - 2013-06-09 08:08:50 UTC
What is happening if

pilot A duels pilot B

and

pilot B then duels pilot C

?

Will pilot A be able to attack pilot C ? Or is it even possible to duel several people at the same time? Maybe the answer to your question is somewhere along this line.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#19 - 2013-06-09 10:04:05 UTC
hard to say anything before you can study combat log, usually you can find clues from there.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2013-06-10 04:07:28 UTC
Maru Sha wrote:
What is happening if

pilot A duels pilot B

and

pilot B then duels pilot C

?

Will pilot A be able to attack pilot C ? Or is it even possible to duel several people at the same time? Maybe the answer to your question is somewhere along this line.

All accepting a duel request does is create a limited engagement between the person that sent it and the person that accepted it.

None of these engagements interact with each other in any way that is relevant here.
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