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All through the house not a creature was stirring not even a mouse.

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Anslo
Scope Works
#141 - 2013-06-06 19:25:56 UTC
Kumq uat wrote:
More like because you are an alarmist idiot.

And thus begins the ad hominem. Bets on when absurdo starts?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-06-06 19:32:11 UTC
Anslo wrote:

Delen Ormand wrote:
It's nothing to do with sample sizes. You've quite consistently made out that "the community" has an issue with her hiring - it doesn't, a small, vocal minority of people within it do.

Although - if I concede that the sample size is too small or we don't have enough information on what the larger playerbase thinks, it then follows that it can't be claimed that a majority, or "the community" has opposition to her hiring either.

I used the term community as a catchall phrase. I apologize if it was misleading. But additionally, the contra to the claim cannot be proven either save for the threadnaughts. But I believe if you explained who this person is and why the outrage occurred, you would see similar disapproval.


Ok, so neither of us can claim to know what the overall playerbase opinion is. A threadnaught just means a lot of people posted. It doesn't say how many were on each side, or how representative those opinions were. What is a fact (yup, it really is one this time) is that out of the overall playerbase, a minority of people voiced disapproval on the forums.

Anslo wrote:

Quote:
Sure, you can want to know, but you don't have a right to demand answers. CCP may or may not choose to make a statement about it. I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to answer it in a way that might satisfy everyone without revealing personal information from the hiring process. But to be honest, it's really none of our business. As long as she doesn't have a negative impact on the game, it's not your business. It's CCP's call.

We have the right to demand what we want. You don't dictate that. When a company champions its relationship to the community, it should not shove them off and tell them to obey when the community members ASK something simple. 'Why did you hire someone who doesn't like, and bad mouths often, Eve?'


Ok, maybe that was poorly worded on my part. Of course you have the right to demand answers. You just don't have the right to answers. CCP has the right to ignore you. You can have the opinion that this wouldn't be good business sense for them to do so, but what makes good business sense for them is something that they'll decide for themselves. Personally, I don't think that listening to customers is always a good idea - they see things from their own point of view, and that's not always the same point of view that a business needs to take.

Also, from what I've seen, saying she doesn't like and often badmouths the game seems a little misrepresentative. Maybe I'm missing the smoking gun evidence here, but the opinions I saw were pretty tame and were about a section of the playerbase rather than the game as a whole. Am I missing something? Are there pics out there of her eating Chribba's firstborn or something?
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-06-06 19:34:44 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kumq uat wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
As opposed to go out, smell the flowers, do work, meet people, play EVE when feeling like it and not break rules, or try to skirt around them.

As far as I can see, this thread has not skirted around any rules. It is calmly and logically bringing to question the addition of an individual.


Considering the hiring of this individual does not impact you or even the game Eve at all I fail to see why this is even your concern as to who CCP wants to be a community rep for Dust.


Because I do not lack foresight.


You believe you don't - how true that is remains to be seen
Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2013-06-06 19:38:02 UTC
The number of pilots who became hiring managers overnight is staggering. Roll
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2013-06-06 19:38:13 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kumq uat wrote:
More like because you are an alarmist idiot.

And thus begins the ad hominem. Bets on when absurdo starts?


You are trying to couch your outrage in pseudo intellectual terms as if it gives it any modicum of validity which it does not. In a previous post which you ignored I stated why you are in fact a butthurt idiot which you deftly ignored because it took a proverbial dildo bat to the skull of your argument. Keep trying to act like it is an intellectual discourse that has relevance, because the fact is you are just as much of a whiny baby concerned with things that are not your business as the people in the previous threads making vulgar remarks.
Anslo
Scope Works
#146 - 2013-06-06 19:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Delen Ormand wrote:
Ok, so neither of us can claim to know what the overall playerbase opinion is. A threadnaught just means a lot of people posted. It doesn't say how many were on each side, or how representative those opinions were. What is a fact (yup, it really is one this time) is that out of the overall playerbase, a minority of people voiced disapproval on the forums.

That's fair. I can concede that the amount of people against her in the thread is smaller than the current subscribed player base.

Anslo wrote:
Ok, maybe that was poorly worded on my part. Of course you have the right to demand answers. You just don't have the right to answers. CCP has the right to ignore you. You can have the opinion that this wouldn't be good business sense for them to do so, but what makes good business sense for them is something that they'll decide for themselves. Personally, I don't think that listening to customers is always a good idea - they see things from their own point of view, and that's not always the same point of view that a business needs to take.

True. I'm looking at the problem from a more relational sense. The company is dependent on a rather passionate player base, so watching and planning around reactions of that base (or planning ahead) is key. But from a purely business perspective...who knows? I just thought it a bad move to hire her, of all the people available, to rep anything related to CCP.

Quote:
Also, from what I've seen, saying she doesn't like and often badmouths the game seems a little misrepresentative. Maybe I'm missing the smoking gun evidence here, but the opinions I saw were pretty tame and were about a section of the playerbase rather than the game as a whole. Am I missing something? Are there pics out there of her eating Chribba's firstborn or something?


Chribba does not have children. He reproduces by tearing the fabric of space time and cloning himself. In regards to her comments; she deleted them. Twitter, TY, FB, blog, all deleted. She forgot her Twitter and someone screen capped it right before she deleted it though.

Delen Ormand wrote:
You believe you don't - how true that is remains to be seen

True. I sort of hope I'm wrong about the person. But I still worry about someone who doesn't like the game working for the game in any capacity. I mean look at other CCPers. They all love this game and dedicate themselves to it and make it insanely good. What happens when you throw apathy into the works though?

Like I said, hope I'm wrong.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Anslo
Scope Works
#147 - 2013-06-06 19:44:53 UTC
Kumq uat wrote:
You are trying to couch your outrage in pseudo intellectual terms as if it gives it any modicum of validity which it does not.

So stating observable facts and developing a potential explanation is invalid? Funny, I thought that's how a lot of things work...science, math, etc. Interesting.

Quote:
In a previous post which you ignored I stated why you are in fact a butthurt idiot which you deftly ignored because it took a proverbial dildo bat to the skull of your argument.

Link the post or post the post number. Also...you think using colorful metaphors somehow makes you more credible?

Quote:
Keep trying to act like it is an intellectual discourse that has relevance, because the fact is you are just as much of a whiny baby concerned with things that are not your business as the people in the previous threads making vulgar remarks.

If it doesn't have relevance, why are you here? If you don't like whining, why are you whining?


[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2013-06-06 19:48:25 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3158356#post3158356


Now hush, read, and bow to the logic of your betters.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-06-06 19:49:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
In regards to her comments; she deleted them. Twitter, TY, FB, blog, all deleted. She forgot her Twitter and someone screen capped it right before she deleted it though.

Therein lies a lot of the problem. Those who don't get it now probably never will. Everything just looks like "he said/she said" to the newcomer on this topic, because she purged just about all of the evidence being held up against her. It's basically the equivalent of trying to prove someone guilty in court after they were allowed to ransack the evidence room and burn the contents.
Anslo
Scope Works
#150 - 2013-06-06 19:55:26 UTC
Indeed.

Kumq uat wrote:
Maybe I am just too intelligent to understand the common rabble but I just do not understand why so many people are so butthurt that they would threaten to leave the game because a kinda annoying 5/10 was hired as a community rep for Dust 514. I just don't see how this impacts your Eve experience at all, much less to drive you to weep and gnash your teeth on the forums about how you are pulling all eleventy billion of your accounts if they don't fire someone.


Please see this post where it highlights why there is outrage. You should have read the thread in its entirety. Also, I did not say I was quitting, I was pointing out logical fallacies and showing that the outrage is not due to misogynistic reasons, but actual credible concerns.

Quote:
You know, someone who would then be unemployed because the assumption is they left some other job to go work for CCP. Nice that you don't care if that person ends up homeless or not or has what is perhaps a dream job for them.

Choices have consequences. If you wanted a job at the New York Times as a journalist, but bashed them as being nonfactual and tabloid journalists for years on end, you will most likely not get hired. They don't care if you're about to go on the street. No one does. That's the world we live in. No one is obligated to coddle or assist anyone, least of all businesses.

Quote:
I mean, I am not a fan of hers at all but this rage just baffles me. Ignore her twitter feed if it really gets you that angry and keep blowing up internet spaceships content and secure that Rise and Fozzy will be guiding the future for us.

If she had got hired somewhere else, I wouldn't care. I don't follow her Twitter or...anything for that matter. Not my cup of tea. It is the fact that a rep, a face of Eve, is now someone who demonstratively dislikes Eve, its players, and the :grimdark: that makes Eve what it is.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
None ofthe Above
#151 - 2013-06-06 19:57:38 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kumq uat wrote:
More like because you are an alarmist idiot.

And thus begins the ad hominem. Bets on when absurdo starts?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3157261#post3157261

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Anslo
Scope Works
#152 - 2013-06-06 20:00:09 UTC
I don't think you understand what absurdo is...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
None ofthe Above
#153 - 2013-06-06 20:05:32 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I don't think you understand what absurdo is...


Probably not, but I do understand "reductio ad absurdum". That was what you were meaning to refer to, yes?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Anslo
Scope Works
#154 - 2013-06-06 20:06:36 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I don't think you understand what absurdo is...


Probably not, but I do understand "reductio ad absurdum". That was what you were meaning to refer to, yes?


Doh, yes I was. Thank you for clarifying. Smile

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#155 - 2013-06-06 20:19:28 UTC
Hey OP,

Did you know that those banks that got bailed out in 2007 are still getting money (Quantitative Easing) permanently, to the tune of billions a month?

And those banks were bailed out because of poisoned assets brought on by the housing bubble that the same banks started with their debt monetization scheme.

Yet there is an article on ZeroHedge regarding the skyrocketing cost of housing that SHOULD be dropping because the banks are taking that permanent QE money and buying up foreclosed houses.

Houses that were owned by people who are being robbed by the Federal Reserve as it prints money to give to the banks.


Now, if you want to be angry about something, you should start with that. Ok?

So after you quit Eve, and good riddance I say, please join the various Occupy or End The Fed activist groups and lend your support to fighting this mess.


I may be leaving too if the majority of the player base is like you. I just won't want to be associated you see. That's how pathetic this is.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2013-06-06 20:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kumq uat
Anslo wrote:
Indeed.

Kumq uat wrote:
Maybe I am just too intelligent to understand the common rabble but I just do not understand why so many people are so butthurt that they would threaten to leave the game because a kinda annoying 5/10 was hired as a community rep for Dust 514. I just don't see how this impacts your Eve experience at all, much less to drive you to weep and gnash your teeth on the forums about how you are pulling all eleventy billion of your accounts if they don't fire someone.


Please see this post where it highlights why there is outrage. You should have read the thread in its entirety. Also, I did not say I was quitting, I was pointing out logical fallacies and showing that the outrage is not due to misogynistic reasons, but actual credible concerns.

Quote:
You know, someone who would then be unemployed because the assumption is they left some other job to go work for CCP. Nice that you don't care if that person ends up homeless or not or has what is perhaps a dream job for them.

Choices have consequences. If you wanted a job at the New York Times as a journalist, but bashed them as being nonfactual and tabloid journalists for years on end, you will most likely not get hired. They don't care if you're about to go on the street. No one does. That's the world we live in. No one is obligated to coddle or assist anyone, least of all businesses.

Quote:
I mean, I am not a fan of hers at all but this rage just baffles me. Ignore her twitter feed if it really gets you that angry and keep blowing up internet spaceships content and secure that Rise and Fozzy will be guiding the future for us.

If she had got hired somewhere else, I wouldn't care. I don't follow her Twitter or...anything for that matter. Not my cup of tea. It is the fact that a rep, a face of Eve, is now someone who demonstratively dislikes Eve, its players, and the :grimdark: that makes Eve what it is.


Yeah, because none of us have rage quit and called CCP bad names. Hell, I was one of the harshest voices during the Fearless debacle. I was right there at the Jita monument (and disco bombing the Perimeter gate warp in, but that is me). We all have our moments where we hate this game and the company but overall we keep coming back because we love it.

Ok, so she is not as "grimdark" as us. So what? She has less active say in how Eve runs than Dolan, the man of many mustaches. She is a COMMUNITY REP for a game that while tied to the Eve Universe is its own seperate game. She is not balancing ships, making game design decisions, or making any decisions at all in the Eve universe. She is a cute face that maybe will do some videos for Dust and attract the attention of undersexed boys in a manner similar to Nikasaur in League of Legends. She will not have an actual impact on our game.

I use colorful metaphors because I am an author and I like to make my writing look pretty and witty and gay.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#157 - 2013-06-06 20:20:52 UTC
"reductio ad absurdum" isn't a fallacy in and of itself.

Am I correct in thinking this is just a standard boxxy debate with a hiring twist btw?
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2013-06-06 20:32:33 UTC
Kumq uat wrote:
She is a cute face that maybe will do some videos for Dust and attract the attention of undersexed boys in a manner similar to Nikasaur in League of Legends.

Lolwut?
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2013-06-06 20:37:33 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Kumq uat wrote:
She is a cute face that maybe will do some videos for Dust and attract the attention of undersexed boys in a manner similar to Nikasaur in League of Legends.

Lolwut?


You really think CCP won't do it? I would lay money on it.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-06-06 20:41:30 UTC
Kumq uat wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Kumq uat wrote:
She is a cute face that maybe will do some videos for Dust and attract the attention of undersexed boys in a manner similar to Nikasaur in League of Legends.

Lolwut?


You really think CCP won't do it? I would lay money on it.

It wasn't about that. I'll just say that your adjective shows questionable taste. Are you also a fan of Slavic schoolmarms?