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Whoa, no more establishments ever?

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FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#81 - 2011-10-22 15:56:32 UTC
Grukni wrote:

Then just let Nvidia do the job. Let it bring us some piece of hardware that can run a multiplayer enviroment of high quality avatars.


Because what this game needs is objects you are unable to see being tessellated purely to cripple my non Nvidia harware Lol
White Carnation
SYNDIC Unlimited
#82 - 2011-10-22 16:41:14 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:


The reality of the limbo state that WiS finds itself in is, by the time CCP gets back to it, if they get back to it, they'll prolly have to start from scratch because of developments in technologies. Rolling it back might not be a bad idea. But, at this point it serves no purpose other than to deny the community access to the racial CQ's which are developed and ready to deploy.


Whic would you prefer -- CQ and people emo-quitting; or no CQ (at all -- which is wherwe we were before and mo worse off for it) and the PvPers able to get scads of epople back to the game, which boosts CCP and then they in turn get to build a Better Game on a solid basis ?
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2011-10-22 16:54:58 UTC
So more 1/2 thought out 1/4 cooked things in EVE. They should just remove what they dont plan to expand on. (unfinished, usless things in EVE)

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
Blastier
#84 - 2011-10-22 17:02:30 UTC
P42ALPHA wrote:
So more 1/2 thought out 1/4 cooked things in EVE. They should just remove what they dont plan to expand on. (unfinished, usless things in EVE)


How much of EVE would be left?
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2011-10-22 20:50:43 UTC
CCP, still waiting for an honest specific reply to the state of Incarna. Is new content over 12 months/ 2 years off. At least have the honesty to say you are ******* us over.
Gael Itrus
Aethernity
#86 - 2011-10-22 21:12:14 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If CCP thinks we don't want WIS content then they need to learn to ******* read.

It has NEVER been NO WIS ... I have been a loud mouth ass on these forums and it was always my feeling from the forum community that Pay to Win was the issue, we don't give a **** about monocles.

We WANT the WIS we were PROMISED, you know in 2008 where people could walk around in establishments and talk to each other and play little mini-games and if you were renowned and entered a bar, people looked up at you...

instead we got something which was a sledgehammer on our graphics cards because someone had the worst burr up their ass about making my face look REAL ... ffs my ship uses submarine physics, why the hell do you guys NOW care about appearances?

Give us CONTENT in Incarna, something to DO as Avatars ... not a single player jerk fest, I don't need eve for that.
Thaylon Sen
The Boondock Saints
#87 - 2011-10-22 21:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaylon Sen
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Blastier wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Incarna was never going to have any content anyway, why spend all those resources so players can meet in a space bar and play space poker? If Incarna was going to have some gameplay, you know that thing you put into a game I would understand everybody lamenting its loss. But the plans CCP revealed showed us that it had next to nothing to actually do.


Yeah games in bars aren't games. Social interaction in an mmo isn't part of a game. I am absolutely marveled at your expansive and insightful mind. Have you ever been in a Discovery Channel special?


So CCP should continue to cripple themselves so sad people can meet their space friends in the space bar for a game of space poker?


Hows that different from meeting in a space ship? Just sayin.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#88 - 2011-10-23 00:37:40 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Hilmar wrote:
Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear.


How does this read as "no, never"?

A bit like FW, has CCP ever said they completely abandoned it?


Considering that FW is likely to be a fair sized chunk of the Winter expansion, I hope you're right.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2011-10-23 00:49:23 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If CCP thinks we don't want WIS content then they need to learn to ******* read.

It has NEVER been NO WIS ... I have been a loud mouth ass on these forums and it was always my feeling from the forum community that Pay to Win was the issue, we don't give a **** about monocles.

We WANT the WIS we were PROMISED, you know in 2008 where people could walk around in establishments and talk to each other and play little mini-games and if you were renowned and entered a bar, people looked up at you...

instead we got something which was a sledgehammer on our graphics cards because someone had the worst burr up their ass about making my face look REAL ... ffs my ship uses submarine physics, why the hell do you guys NOW care about appearances?

Give us CONTENT in Incarna, something to DO as Avatars ... not a single player jerk fest, I don't need eve for that.


My hero

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#90 - 2011-10-23 00:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Razin wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


why didn't we see the similar mass subscription loss and general mayhem in the past?


Mostly because in those days CCP had shown dedication to EVE-online and stayed true (mostly) to their vision. Players renewed their subscription with a feeling of making an investment in a living and breathing universe run by a developer they could trust to do it right.

But general neglect, abandoned and dropped features, shrinking expansions, schedules stretching into infinity, and treating their customers like trash finally added up. In the last couple of years it has become increasingly obvious that in CCP's plans EVE was nothing but a test-bed for WoD and an appendage for DUST; and a cash cow for both. The release of Incarna expansion, which featured one badly optimized room and a cash store, was the last straw, the spark that started the flame. The two leaks added confirmation to the general consensus and sealed CCP's fate.

Edit:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I just see the (what I consider) over reaction of the EVE community throwing fuel on the fire and ultimately causing almost as much harm as it did good.

Given what I wrote above the player reaction was spot-on. CCP's financial predicament can be looked at as fortuitous given their reversal of focus and newly stated goals. A CCP in better condition might have decided to ignore the discontent.


One of my main points was that CCP needed to rethink the distribution of it's development resources. Yes, they had a lot to try and get done in two years, but they should never have committed to that time frame if it meant ignoring the core game play of EVE for that long.

That's the point many of us are trying to make. A more even distribution of of resources would have been perfectly acceptable to most, and that is what many people were striving to make clear.

We were drown out by people screaming for it to be cut entirely. Most of those people were entirely sincere in their desire to promote a constructive change for EVE, and never realized that the incessant chanting of our notorious forum troll community had spurred them past the point of good sense.

All you need do is look at this thread, or a dozen like it, to realize that most of those good folks who shot monuments or cancelled some of their subscriptions are now voicing regret that the project has been cut so far out of the development cycle it may never be revisited.

Some good has come out of all this, we can take comfort in that... but a there was a great deal of over reaction involved that ultimately caused a lot of damage as well. Damage to CCP, damage to employee's that lost their jobs, and damage to the hopes that many harbor that EVE can one day be far more than merely a space flight simulator.

And no, I'm not saying the greater community is to blame. CCP certainly set the stage for all of this to happen.

But I am saying that I'd feel pretty hypocritical if I were patting myself on the back for "a job well done".

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#91 - 2011-10-23 01:04:33 UTC
Not wanting to rub salt in a wound but alarm bells were ringing hard for me when they announced that "70 teams" were working on Incarna and in a year they created one room for one race.

The lack of concept and ideas for WiS has never been a secret and there has always been an underlying idea that there would be some amazing feature. In true I think most players who want WiS would be happy to do just that; walk in stations.

It would be a shame for them not to expand CQ at all but if it's a case of saving the company by junking CQ then so be it.

NeX store.... they may a well just delete that from the game. It just makes no sense now.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#92 - 2011-10-23 01:18:27 UTC
Blastier wrote:
Is this true? Incarna and WiS is completely gone?


No. He said quite clearly that Incarna will be put on the backburner while CCP focuses on the core game. Most likely Establishments will be released in a year or two, when technology catches up with CCP's vision. Most likely there will be gradual work on the Incarna engine over the next year or two, some of which we may see go live on TQ, but nothing substantial until CCP has a good and clear vision for where they want to take Incarna, and until the technology is available to do that vision justice, since at the moment most players simply do not have the hardware to run a full station environment; think of Incarna as a game that should have been released in two years.
Razin
The Scope
#93 - 2011-10-23 02:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Ranger 1 wrote:
We were drown out by people screaming for it (Incarna) to be cut entirely.

I don't know how you got that impression. By far most of the complaints were about some combination of the following:

- neglect of core gameplay,
- possible non-vanity MTs in EVE's future,
- lack of communication,
- small scope of this expansion,
- Incarna content performance,
- MT prices and their relevance in a sandbox world,
- removal of ship-spinning,
- forced nature of CQ and its function as a NeX storefront,
- etc.

The list goes on, there was a lot to complain about. A very small minority argued for outright cancellation of Incarna.

Even the CSM wasn't against it (two of its most prominent members made public statements to this end), and it was them that consulted CCP in what needs to be done to stop the unsubs.

So if CCP somehow received the impression that their customers wanted Incarna cancelled, it wasn't from any of the above sources. A much more likely explanation for Hilmar's words is the cancellation of WoD, and the consequent loss of any reasons to spend resources on Incarna.

Ranger 1 wrote:
there was a great deal of over reaction involved that ultimately caused a lot of damage


Again, I didn’t see any over reaction. I saw customers dissatisfied with the service/product for reasons I already listed, letting it be known. All of the damage was caused by CCP upper management themselves. Remember how long it took to get any official statement from them? And when it did come, how many weasel-words and phrases were used? And it just kept going, even after the ‘emergency summit’ with CSM. It took a few weeks of people unsubscribing for the situation to finally sink in.

I think that what happened is very regrettable, and I certainly feel for those who lost their jobs. However, blaming the players for anything here is like blaming the car tires for quickly wearing down and then going flat because the driver kept forgetting to keep them inflated to spec.