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Whoa, no more establishments ever?

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Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-10-22 02:27:47 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If CCP thinks we don't want WIS content then they need to learn to ******* read.

It has NEVER been NO WIS ... I have been a loud mouth ass on these forums and it was always my feeling from the forum community that Pay to Win was the issue, we don't give a **** about monocles.

We WANT the WIS we were PROMISED, you know in 2008 where people could walk around in establishments and talk to each other and play little mini-games and if you were renowned and entered a bar, people looked up at you...

instead we got something which was a sledgehammer on our graphics cards because someone had the worst burr up their ass about making my face look REAL ... ffs my ship uses submarine physics, why the hell do you guys NOW care about appearances?

Give us CONTENT in Incarna, something to DO as Avatars ... not a single player jerk fest, I don't need eve for that.


Probably the issue relies on them being unable to deliver a multiplayer avatar engine on time. If the development extends so long (until graphic cards catch up?), they have better refocus on other parts of their core and single product which they are able to deliver. No problem with Dust, since they're using a licensed commercial engine.
Anishoara
Federal Institute Service
#22 - 2011-10-22 02:29:10 UTC
If it's abandonned, please roll back to incursion, i'll be able to run multiple client again :)
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-10-22 02:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Psychophantic wrote:
Quote:
I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us.


Thanks community.


Don't blame the community for this. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to see that the hardware demands of one avatar and one small room prolly don't scale well with expansive environments and hundreds of avatars. Don't allow CCP to fool you into believe they abandoned it because of the Eve community. The community is a convenient excuse for a technology that is either horribly implemented or is dependent upon consumer technilogy catching up to their WoD development.

With the "all but" canceled WoD development there is also no further need to develop Incarna, since, afterall, it was basically a beta test for WoD.

Those are the only two reasons I see Incarna being abandoned, financials aside. But, I seriously doubt it has very little to do with us.

Don't ban me, bro!
Adunh Slavy
#24 - 2011-10-22 02:41:12 UTC
I for one am sure they will revisit WiS and walking one day. Right now they are focusing on Eve and the Dust/Eve part of the business. WiS was always more a part of WoD than it was of Eve, so it makes sense that it be put on a shelf for the time being as they focus in on the core of CCPs revenue stream, Eve, and attempt to expand a new stream, Dust.

I suspect once Dust is out and stabalizes as a revenue stream, succesful or not, then they will return to WiS and WoD efforts.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#25 - 2011-10-22 02:41:29 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If CCP thinks we don't want WIS content then they need to learn to ******* read.

It has NEVER been NO WIS ... I have been a loud mouth ass on these forums and it was always my feeling from the forum community that Pay to Win was the issue, we don't give a **** about monocles.

We WANT the WIS we were PROMISED, you know in 2008 where people could walk around in establishments and talk to each other and play little mini-games and if you were renowned and entered a bar, people looked up at you...

instead we got something which was a sledgehammer on our graphics cards because someone had the worst burr up their ass about making my face look REAL ... ffs my ship uses submarine physics, why the hell do you guys NOW care about appearances?

Give us CONTENT in Incarna, something to DO as Avatars ... not a single player jerk fest, I don't need eve for that.


As much as I totally agree with you, CCP was given little choice.

With the brainless sheep being whipped into a frenzy (over issues that were no more serious than uncountable other screw ups that have happened over the years), the bad press, loss of subscriptions, and general pressure forced them to step almost completely away from Incarna related content to save themselves as a company.

Ideally they would have tried for a more balanced approach to content development, but the community when taken as a whole firmly removed that option. Voices like yours (and mine) that spoke out for a more common sense approach that served ALL parties involved were firmly drown out by our local forum trolls and sincere but reactionary community members.

And here we are, not in a terrible spot with some excellent new content being delivered... but left looking at our Avatars thinking what a shame this was chopped off at the knees.

Yeah, they foolishly opened the door for this to happen... and the blissfully narrow minded mob was only too happy to rush through.


View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#26 - 2011-10-22 02:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
People on the forums, love to read between the lines. Even if there aren't lines to read between.

Being afraid of something that might happen while the odds are it still might not happen, is usually called an irrational fear.

Each time he says they wont touch NeX or Incarna, he also says it might happen later on down the track when the time is right. He only says that it isn't a priority for them at the moment.
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-22 02:42:07 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:
Quote:
I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us.


Thanks community.


Don't blame the community for this. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to see that the hardware demands of one avatar and one small room prolly don't scale well with expansive environments and hundreds of avatars. Don't allow CCP to fool you into believe they abandoned it because of the Eve community. The community is a convenient excuse for a technology that is either horribly implemented or is dependent upon consumer technilogy catching up to their WoD development.

With the "all but" canceled WoD development there is also no further need to develop Incarna, since, afterall, it was basically a beta test for WoD.

Those are the only two reasons I see Incarna being abandoned, financials aside. But, I seriously doubt it has very little to do with us.


Then just let Nvidia do the job. Let it bring us some piece of hardware that can run a multiplayer enviroment of high quality avatars.

Just being sarcastic. I'm really pissed off at this.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2011-10-22 02:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mr Kidd wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:
Quote:
I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us.


Thanks community.


Don't blame the community for this. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to see that the hardware demands of one avatar and one small room prolly don't scale well with expansive environments and hundreds of avatars. Don't allow CCP to fool you into believe they abandoned it because of the Eve community. The community is a convenient excuse for a technology that is either horribly implemented or is dependent upon consumer technilogy catching up to their WoD development.

With the "all but" canceled WoD development there is also no further need to develop Incarna, since, afterall, it was basically a beta test for WoD.

Those are the only two reasons I see Incarna being abandoned, financials aside. But, I seriously doubt it has very little to do with us.



No doubt Incarna was released too early in it's development.

They didn't manage expectations well.
They didn't have the code running efficiently.
They didn't have enough content.
The content they did focus on for the release was the worst possible choice.
They didn't present it as a test bed of future tech, with the option to try it or not if you so choose.

But if you propose that the community had nothing to do with it, why didn't we see the similar mass subscription loss and general mayhem in the past?

Say during the weeks when nobody could stay logged in for more than a few minutes due to the servers crashing...
Or when we couldn't travel more than a few jumps in any direction because of nodes having traffic control...
Or after boot.ini rendering your computer unbootable...
Or after the T20 incident which involved blatant Dev cheating and favoritism...
Or after the moo goo fiasco...
Or the release of the PLEX system...

Or any other number of incidents as serious (or more so) than a frame rate hit when in station, a (very) few video cards allegedly melting, a new variation on the current PLEX system, and a brusque pep talk from Hilmar (that did not kiss our asses) directed at his employee's.

We had a very, very large hand in bringing it to this point... and it wasn't necessary. Not to this degree.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#29 - 2011-10-22 03:04:36 UTC
Anishoara wrote:
If it's abandonned, please roll back to incursion, i'll be able to run multiple client again :)


You do realize you can turn off CQ now right? The game runs as efficiently, if not more so, than it ever did.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Razin
The Scope
#30 - 2011-10-22 03:08:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


As much as I totally agree with you, CCP was given little choice.

With the brainless sheep being whipped into a frenzy (over issues that were no more serious than uncountable other screw ups that have happened over the years), the bad press, loss of subscriptions, and general pressure forced them to step almost completely away from Incarna related content to save themselves as a company.

Ideally they would have tried for a more balanced approach to content development, but the community when taken as a whole firmly removed that option. Voices like yours (and mine) that spoke out for a more common sense approach that served ALL parties involved were firmly drown out by our local forum trolls and sincere but reactionary community members.

And here we are, not in a terrible spot with some excellent new content being delivered... but left looking at our Avatars thinking what a shame this was chopped off at the knees.

Yeah, they foolishly opened the door for this to happen... and the blissfully narrow minded mob was only too happy to rush through.



I think you're being a little forgetful here. Incarna in it's final form was nothing but a tech-demo for WoD. As soon as it became clear that the WoD project was unsustainable, Incana lost its attractiveness as a consumer of dev resources. So it was dropped/put on ice.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#31 - 2011-10-22 03:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Ranger 1 wrote:
We had a very, very large hand in bringing it to this point... and it wasn't necessary. Not to this degree.


This explains the going too far part a bit better then I could.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-10-22 03:38:49 UTC
Incarna was never going to have any content anyway, why spend all those resources so players can meet in a space bar and play space poker? If Incarna was going to have some gameplay, you know that thing you put into a game I would understand everybody lamenting its loss. But the plans CCP revealed showed us that it had next to nothing to actually do.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#33 - 2011-10-22 03:51:18 UTC
Razin wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


As much as I totally agree with you, CCP was given little choice.

With the brainless sheep being whipped into a frenzy (over issues that were no more serious than uncountable other screw ups that have happened over the years), the bad press, loss of subscriptions, and general pressure forced them to step almost completely away from Incarna related content to save themselves as a company.

Ideally they would have tried for a more balanced approach to content development, but the community when taken as a whole firmly removed that option. Voices like yours (and mine) that spoke out for a more common sense approach that served ALL parties involved were firmly drown out by our local forum trolls and sincere but reactionary community members.

And here we are, not in a terrible spot with some excellent new content being delivered... but left looking at our Avatars thinking what a shame this was chopped off at the knees.

Yeah, they foolishly opened the door for this to happen... and the blissfully narrow minded mob was only too happy to rush through.



I think you're being a little forgetful here. Incarna in it's final form was nothing but a tech-demo for WoD. As soon as it became clear that the WoD project was unsustainable, Incana lost its attractiveness as a consumer of dev resources. So it was dropped/put on ice.


No, not forgetful. I just didn't explain my position fully. See my second post.

@non judgement

Thanks for posting that link, I hadn't gotten around to reading it yet. It is very well written, and in my mind very accurate. Bear in mind while reading it that part of the reason why the issue became so extreme so quickly was the mass loss of subscriptions during this time.

If the reaction hadn't been so over the top strong, had subscriptions maintained a healthy level or gone up, CCP would have had leverage to extend their loan and hopefully see all of their projects bear fruit before it came due again. As it was, with subs trending downward, they simply had no choice but to "cut off that arm" and focus everything on EVE (and it's closely related sibling DUST).

So yes, I agree with the article... I just see the (what I consider) over reaction of the EVE community throwing fuel on the fire and ultimately causing almost as much harm as it did good.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Blastier
#34 - 2011-10-22 03:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastier
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Incarna was never going to have any content anyway, why spend all those resources so players can meet in a space bar and play space poker? If Incarna was going to have some gameplay, you know that thing you put into a game I would understand everybody lamenting its loss. But the plans CCP revealed showed us that it had next to nothing to actually do.


Yeah games in bars aren't games. Social interaction in an mmo isn't part of a game. I am absolutely marveled at your expansive and insightful mind. Have you ever been in a Discovery Channel special?

e: oh industry though in establishments... nope you're right not part of the game Oops my mistake
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-10-22 03:54:22 UTC
Blastier wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Incarna was never going to have any content anyway, why spend all those resources so players can meet in a space bar and play space poker? If Incarna was going to have some gameplay, you know that thing you put into a game I would understand everybody lamenting its loss. But the plans CCP revealed showed us that it had next to nothing to actually do.


Yeah games in bars aren't games. Social interaction in an mmo isn't part of a game. I am absolutely marveled at your expansive and insightful mind. Have you ever been in a Discovery Channel special?


So CCP should continue to cripple themselves so sad people can meet their space friends in the space bar for a game of space poker?
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#36 - 2011-10-22 03:57:28 UTC
Whoa whoa whoa! Wait! What?!

We could walk in stations?

Man, I need to get out of the hole more often.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-10-22 04:27:17 UTC
CCP just needs to fess up about what their plans (or lack of) for Incarna to end the endless speculation so we can all move on.

CCP are you planning on doing a Devblog on this at any point? Will there be multiplayer establishments in the next 12 months? 2 years? Ever?

Personally I think Incarna is dead, and I'm speaking as someone who was looking forward to it.
Razin
The Scope
#38 - 2011-10-22 04:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Ranger 1 wrote:


why didn't we see the similar mass subscription loss and general mayhem in the past?


Mostly because in those days CCP had shown dedication to EVE-online and stayed true (mostly) to their vision. Players renewed their subscription with a feeling of making an investment in a living and breathing universe run by a developer they could trust to do it right.

But general neglect, abandoned and dropped features, shrinking expansions, schedules stretching into infinity, and treating their customers like trash finally added up. In the last couple of years it has become increasingly obvious that in CCP's plans EVE was nothing but a test-bed for WoD and an appendage for DUST; and a cash cow for both. The release of Incarna expansion, which featured one badly optimized room and a cash store, was the last straw, the spark that started the flame. The two leaks added confirmation to the general consensus and sealed CCP's fate.

Edit:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I just see the (what I consider) over reaction of the EVE community throwing fuel on the fire and ultimately causing almost as much harm as it did good.

Given what I wrote above the player reaction was spot-on. CCP's financial predicament can be looked at as fortuitous given their reversal of focus and newly stated goals. A CCP in better condition might have decided to ignore the discontent.
Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#39 - 2011-10-22 04:45:38 UTC
I am glad it is gone. Hopefully we will get some actual meat and potatoes.

I have more space likes than you. 
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-10-22 04:55:28 UTC
Hope they don't scrap the idea of WiS. And we better get Combat-in-Station (CiS); I want my FireFly MMO :P