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Thanatos PVE

Author
Bibosikus
Air
#41 - 2013-06-16 22:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Ciyrine wrote:
I wont play 2 accounts. And if I did I would play 2x carrier for combined 3400dps rather than 1700


OK I'll elaborate a little:

Two Dominix will do more applied dps.
They will align & warp to next anom, target and start killing new rats more quickly.
They will be 100km off the anom's warp-in point (cue: survivability).
They cost a fraction of a carrier's isk, and are quicker to train.
They will pay for both accounts in a week's casual ratting for bounties alone.

Nuff said?

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-06-16 22:43:11 UTC
Quote:
1) Two Dominix will do more applied dps.
2) They will align & warp to next anom more quickly.
3) They will be 100km off the anom's warp-in point (cue: survivability).
4) They cost a fraction of a carrier's isk, and are quicker to train.
5) They will pay for both accounts in a week's casual ratting for bounties alone


1) why would dominix do more applied damage? 1700DPS of sentries from dominix should be same as 1700 dps of carriers and certainly less than 3400dps of 2x carrier. Im fine with dominix being a halfway point ship for a 2nd account but as a final stop for PVE?

2) With MWD carrier will warp in 10 sec even if dominix aligns in say 6 sec the DPS the 2x carriers do will more than compensate. Now if you want to tell me that 2 accounts make more isk than 1 account then thats not really much of a conversation but has nothing to do with wether a dominix is better than a carrier

3) i dont know what this even means. Why would a dominix warp in closer than a carrier. Or warp in to a better position. Or whatever 100km off anoms warp in point means in favour of dominix

4) ill give you that. but if I can make more isk with carrier than quickly the carrier will pay for itself. Unless Im losing them too quickly

5) depends how often you play. Im too busy in life to actively play more than a couple of hours a week. Most of the time Im afk mining. And maybe a 2nd account will pay for itself even under those conditions. Perhaps one day Ill be at a point in the game where I will be looking for a 2nd account but not yet
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-06-16 23:34:56 UTC
Because Domi's don't attract gangers like carriers do, and if they do you are much more likely to get out
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-17 03:05:21 UTC
how are you guys not losing sentries with your carriers? some guys I been talking to use fighters because they say sentries get auto popped as soon as they get targeted
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-06-17 03:06:59 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
how are you guys not losing sentries with your carriers? some guys I been talking to use fighters because they say sentries get auto popped as soon as they get targeted



They need to skill up a bit, or get rid of a couple DCUs.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-06-17 03:37:54 UTC
how many DCUs you running? what are you replacing them with?

They were saying shield transfer worked well for fighters. But sentries die fast, and carrier locks on sentries too slow for shield repair to save them before they die
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-06-17 03:42:55 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
how many DCUs you running? what are you replacing them with?

They were saying shield transfer worked well for fighters. But sentries die fast, and carrier locks on sentries too slow for shield repair to save them before they die



You don't care about shield you care about armor, and you should never flush out the high with DCUs you are way to vulnerable that way, you need at a minimum a faction smartbomb and a faction heavy neut....reppers meh, I usually just rep sentries or fighters with other drones.

If you are sitting right over a pile of sentires you pull them when they are taking damage, locking and repping takes forever.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-06-17 03:48:03 UTC
1) you dont care about shield on the thanny or on the sentries?

2) you care about armor why?

3) does heavy repair drone not require that I lock onto sentries to fix them?

4) does faction smartbomb and heavy neut really provide the protection you need for the carrier? what are the scenarios this helps in? My understanding is EW drones are not popular so why smartbombs? And one heavy neut enough to disable a tackller?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-06-17 04:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Ciyrine wrote:
1) you dont care about shield on the thanny or on the sentries?

2) you care about armor why?

3) does heavy repair drone not require that I lock onto sentries to fix them?

4) does faction smartbomb and heavy neut really provide the protection you need for the carrier? what are the scenarios this helps in? My understanding is EW drones are not popular so why smartbombs? And one heavy neut enough to disable a tackller?


1) I was referring to the drones, on a ratting thanny you have local reps, and it takes a LONG time for most rats to do appriciable armor damage.

2) On the drones the shield regenerates the armor doesn't, so at some point you have to deal with it.....and paying to fix armor/hull damage on the pile of drones you can carry in a carrier.....yeah, the hell with that.

3) Repair drones do require a lock but you can do that later, when there isn't a bunch of crap trying to blow up your drones like the last BS or something.

4) The faction neut can reach out to the point range overheated over everything that isn't a fleet interceptor or a gallente recon, the smart bomb is for the wise ass spider pointers that build to operate under heavy neuts.....and because you do get those pointing elite frigs that get under all of your drones, you pull the sentries in and nuke the little ***** to make sure you aren't pointed.


Sentry ratting is brave because you are stopped and 10 seconds is a LONG time for a covert drop, they are going to be all over you if you aren't in warp the second local spikes. That being said, you are already slipping if you aren't in warp when the first neutral hit local... and if you are carrier ratting and a neutral is already there you don't need to be in a carrier anyway.


For all of this I generally avoid ratting in a carrier at all, unless its baiting or something more amusing where the ship is under reimbursement policies.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-06-17 04:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
1) if your not fixing your drones until its safe how are they not dying? some info Im recieving people saying they die pretty fast once targeted and the new AI loves drones. And getting a lock on sentries to get a rep drone to fix them they die before they get fixed

2) you said the rats dont do appreciable armor damage? the stats for the armour dont seem that much different from the shield stats so it doesnt change the sentries dying that these other guys thing is a big problem

4) Is the heavy neut enough to break someones cap who is tackling you though? seems like youd need several just to make a difference

5) is a smartbomb enough to hurt a frigate thats spider pointing you? Smartbombs seem pretty weak only meant to kill say drones
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-06-17 04:45:54 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
1) if your not fixing your drones until its safe and you can get a lock how are they not dying? some info Im recieving people saying they die pretty fast once targeted and the new AI loves drones

2) you said the rats dont do appreciable armor damage? the stats for the armour dont seem that much different from the shield stats so it doesnt change the sentries dying that these other guys thing is a big problem

4) Is the heavy neut enough to break someones cap who is tackling you though? seems like youd need several just to make a difference

5) is a smartbomb enough to hurt a frigate thats spider pointing you? Smartbombs seem pretty weak only meant to kill say drones



1) You understand that you can literally carry hundreds of non-fighter drones in a carrier? Just group them and rotate them out, you can have 10 flights of each combat drone....easily. These aren't big Dominixes, the drone bay is 100,000m3

2) Rats don't do appreciable armor damage to the carrier, in fact if you are doing it right they won't get through the shields.....drone armor damage is all you have worry about.

4) A heavy neut caps out a MWDing frigate in at most four cycles, he can't turn it off he'll get droned into the floor (remember LOTS of combat drones).

5) Its like 40 DPS but it'll clear frigs, particularly if you have scout drones or fighters out...fighters take forever to get anywhere, so its good to have a plan B.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#52 - 2013-06-17 06:27:01 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
1) why would dominix do more applied damage? 1700DPS of sentries from dominix should be same as 1700 dps of carriers and certainly less than 3400dps of 2x carrier. Im fine with dominix being a halfway point ship for a 2nd account but as a final stop for PVE?


A Dominix gets an interesting bonus for drones: optimal and tracking. That means they can shoot further with Gardes than a carrier can and can hit things closer with Gardes than a carrier can. And that, in a nutshell, is applied DPS.

And as for two carriers: you would need three accounts to make that work (1 for cynos, 2 for capital pilots). For two Domis you only need two accounts.

Sorry to say, but carriers are not PvE ships. They can be used that way, but it's really not their strong suit.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-17 13:04:20 UTC
why does a carrier need a cyno account along with it?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-06-17 13:05:01 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
why does a carrier need a cyno account along with it?


how else are you going to move it
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-06-17 13:21:49 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
1) why would dominix do more applied damage? 1700DPS of sentries from dominix should be same as 1700 dps of carriers and certainly less than 3400dps of 2x carrier. Im fine with dominix being a halfway point ship for a 2nd account but as a final stop for PVE?


A Dominix gets an interesting bonus for drones: optimal and tracking. That means they can shoot further with Gardes than a carrier can and can hit things closer with Gardes than a carrier can. And that, in a nutshell, is applied DPS.

And as for two carriers: you would need three accounts to make that work (1 for cynos, 2 for capital pilots). For two Domis you only need two accounts.

Sorry to say, but carriers are not PvE ships. They can be used that way, but it's really not their strong suit.



Applied dps is great.....if you are in Serpentis space, against Angels or Sanshas.....not so much.

....and unless you are in NPC null or low sec you can get a carrier around just fine with one account. Triple boxing is for troops through low sec.

The carrier's strong suite is moving fit ships over long jump ranges...with JDC V you can go a long way across the map with a single mid.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-06-17 13:24:20 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
why does a carrier need a cyno account along with it?


how else are you going to move it


Cyno generator, so long as I keep jump cap, I can instantly be pretty much anywhere in the region with an alliance pos.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#57 - 2013-06-17 15:26:35 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
why does a carrier need a cyno account along with it?


how else are you going to move it


Cyno generator, so long as I keep jump cap, I can instantly be pretty much anywhere in the region with an alliance pos.


I'll cede that one. I'm a low sec dweller for life, so cyno networks don't tend to occur to me naturally.

But I still want the OP to understand that carriers can't use gates; I'm not sure that's even come up yet. Standard practice, as far as I'm concerned, would be to have a second account ready to light cynos to move a carrier around. Friends are great, but they're just not as reliable as doing it yourself.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-06-18 01:26:45 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:


But I still want the OP to understand that carriers can't use gates; I'm not sure that's even come up yet. Standard practice, as far as I'm concerned, would be to have a second account ready to light cynos to move a carrier around. Friends are great, but they're just not as reliable as doing it yourself.



Not to mention it takes like 4 days to train up a cyno alt.

Even then carriers are pretty much a necessity of living in Null, you never deploy somewhere close and bumbing rides to a staging system with 4 mids sucks....AND costs a **** load paying people back in fuel.
Frillo Teslar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-06-19 16:10:39 UTC
You don't pay for reps in 0.0.........
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-06-19 18:57:13 UTC
Whats that mean?