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"dear" CCCP, YET ANOTHER caldari nerf?
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#41 - 2013-06-05 14:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
OP I really don't see what your problem is.

Lets take the Raven with Cruise now doing an extra 30% damage with faster base flight time added to the hulls bonuses this allows you to apply that damage far better than you were before and should more than makes up for the loss of a high slot.

You have increased PG and CPU allowing you better fitting options as well as an additional mid-slot and increased capacitor.

While you have lost some native tank you have gained extra speed a faster align time and a lowered sig radius .

As for HML's there range was excessive and gave to much of an advantage to missile spamming gangs, I do tend to think the DPS drop was a little on the high side but not enough to worry me. Try HAM Drakes, they are fun boats and do a good job unless of course you have personal problems with opponents actually being within effective combat range of you.

The fact is that Caldari ships are used more now in PvP (with the exception of the Drake and the Blackbird) than I have seen since I started playing the game. This rebalance has given the Raven a chance to crawl out fo the PvE oubliette it has languished in for years as the T1 cruiser rebalance brought the Caldari hulls back into the light.

If you don't want to see this then that is of course up to you to maintain your delusion of choice.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Combatevolved
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-06-05 14:32:03 UTC
Maybe they should include when picking characters. Caldari is only more PvE. Not only do missiles suck for PvP, but so do all caldari ships.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#43 - 2013-06-05 14:34:03 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
rants



This guy is great at complaining, and terrible at answering simple questions.


I hope he's not a CEO, I feel bad for his noobs.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#44 - 2013-06-05 14:34:12 UTC
Combatevolved wrote:
Maybe they should include when picking characters. Caldari is only more PvE. Not only do missiles suck for PvP, but so do all caldari ships.


Try the Moa, honestly it really is a good ship now and I love it to bits.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-06-05 14:34:39 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
It's so lovely to see all these "PVPers of HighSec or theory" praising Raven nerf. Lots of fun. Thanks Xam! :-)


So is reding idiots who can't explain how they used thier raven in pvp since it's a **** combo of range bonus on large missile to begin with. It was unable to brawl because the tank was bad, the rage bonus on missile is poor at best because it put cruise way too damn far to be usable and torps are still bad damage application on any target faster than a POS.
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#46 - 2013-06-05 14:35:22 UTC
Samillian wrote:
OP I really don't see what your problem is.

Lets take the Raven with Cruise now doing an extra 30% damage with faster base flight time added to the hulls bonuses this allows you to apply that damage far better than you were before and should more than makes up for the loss of a high slot.

You have increased PG and CPU allowing you better fitting options as well as an additional mid-slot and increased capacitor.

While you have lost some native tank you have gained extra speed a faster align time and a lowered sig radius .

As for HML's there range was excessive and gave to much of an advantage to missile spamming gangs, I do tend to think the DPS drop was a little on the high side but not enough to worry me. Try HAM Drakes, they are fun boats and do a good job unless of course you have personal problems with opponents actually being within effective combat range of you.

The fact is that Caldari ships are used more now in PvP (with the exception of the Drake and the Blackbird) than I have seen since I started playing the game. This rebalance has given the Raven a chance to crawl out fo the PvE oubliette it has languished in for years as the T1 cruiser rebalance brought the Caldari hulls back into the light.

If you don't want to see this then that is of course up to you to maintain your delusion of choice.

oh .. so let`s see.. they`ve taken the weapon type that basically would let raven use HALF of the potential dps on it, buffed the dmg of that weapon by 30% (for really slow people.. that`s still worse than torps) and called it a buff? while removing a high slot.. which was normally used to fit a neut or smarty. makes sen...er... :D come back when you`re old enough to buy beer.

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#47 - 2013-06-05 14:35:45 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:
and how is taking slots away from a raven a buff ?


It's been repurposed to an Attack Battleship & cruise missiles, which is the weapon of choice for Raven pilots, have received a significant buff to their performance. Overall the new Raven will perform far better than the old one.


at pve - yes.
at pvp - are you stupid? rhetorical, incase you didn`t get that bit.


Oh, I'm sorry. I could have sworn earlier you were complaining it was a nerf for pve pilots. It's still a good deal for pvp pilots, even though a raven is a bad idea for most pvp in most every situation I've seen. Look at it this way, you lose a neut but you gain a web/scram or painter. More damage is always a good idea for pvp, and missiles are bad for pvp. Sad but true.

try again miss, this time, make some sense :D if missiles are so bad for pve, lol ccp wouldn`t have nerfed HMLs.. and now ravens :D YES.. higher dps is good for pvp .. at the same time.. there are other things to pvp .. like neuts, AOE.. potential of which was so nicely decreased on ravens.


What's the range on neuts and smartbombs? shorter than t2 point, right? Who are you killing, other than people that don't know to stay out of neut range?

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2013-06-05 14:36:39 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
It's so lovely to see all these "PVPers of HighSec or theory" praising Raven nerf. Lots of fun. Thanks Xam! :-)


So is reding idiots who can't explain how they used thier raven in pvp since it's a **** combo of range bonus on large missile to begin with. It was unable to brawl because the tank was bad, the rage bonus on missile is poor at best because it put cruise way too damn far to be usable and torps are still bad damage application on any target faster than a POS.



Thank you, Im glad Im not the only one who thinks this, and thank you for also noticing he refuses to explain what he thinks hes doing.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#49 - 2013-06-05 14:37:30 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
It's so lovely to see all these "PVPers of HighSec or theory" praising Raven nerf. Lots of fun. Thanks Xam! :-)


So is reding idiots who can't explain how they used thier raven in pvp since it's a **** combo of range bonus on large missile to begin with. It was unable to brawl because the tank was bad, the rage bonus on missile is poor at best because it put cruise way too damn far to be usable and torps are still bad damage application on any target faster than a POS.

lesson for those that are still convinced the new launcher was a major buff to the game: one uses raven in a same way as a mega with blasters.. only, does higher dmg at anything that`s bigger than a frig. clear enough or still struggling? try tetris first.

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#50 - 2013-06-05 14:39:04 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
It's so lovely to see all these "PVPers of HighSec or theory" praising Raven nerf. Lots of fun. Thanks Xam! :-)


So is reding idiots who can't explain how they used thier raven in pvp since it's a **** combo of range bonus on large missile to begin with. It was unable to brawl because the tank was bad, the rage bonus on missile is poor at best because it put cruise way too damn far to be usable and torps are still bad damage application on any target faster than a POS.

lesson for those that are still convinced the new launcher was a major buff to the game: one uses raven in a same way as a mega with blasters.. only, does higher dmg at anything that`s bigger than a frig. clear enough or still struggling? try tetris first.


O.o



I...I... dont even....




Well played that man *golf clap*

You have finally counter-trolled me into silence

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-06-05 14:39:20 UTC
Why does the utility highslot matter to you so much anyway? You've only been using Raven's to bash offline wormhole towers.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#52 - 2013-06-05 14:39:39 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
[quote=Xamiakas]and how is taking slots away from a raven a buff ?


It's been repurposed to an Attack Battleship & cruise missiles, which is the weapon of choice for Raven pilots, have received a significant buff to their performance. Overall the new Raven will perform far better than the old one.

at pve - yes.
at pvp - are you stupid? rhetorical, incase you didn`t get that bit.

Oh, I'm sorry. I could have sworn earlier you were complaining it was a nerf for pve pilots. It's still a good deal for pvp pilots, even though a raven is a bad idea for most pvp in most every situation I've seen. Look at it this way, you lose a neut but you gain a web/scram or painter. More damage is always a good idea for pvp, and missiles are bad for pvp. Sad but true.

try again miss, this time, make some sense :D if missiles are so bad for pve, lol ccp wouldn`t have nerfed HMLs.. and now ravens :D YES.. higher dps is good for pvp .. at the same time.. there are other things to pvp .. like neuts, AOE.. potential of which was so nicely decreased on ravens.


What's the range on neuts and smartbombs? shorter than t2 point, right? Who are you killing, other than people that don't know to stay out of neut range?

if you`re using a disrupt on a bs with short ranged weaponry.. you really shouldn`t have stopped mining that veldspar.

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-05 14:40:01 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
Samillian wrote:
OP I really don't see what your problem is.

Lets take the Raven with Cruise now doing an extra 30% damage with faster base flight time added to the hulls bonuses this allows you to apply that damage far better than you were before and should more than makes up for the loss of a high slot.

You have increased PG and CPU allowing you better fitting options as well as an additional mid-slot and increased capacitor.

While you have lost some native tank you have gained extra speed a faster align time and a lowered sig radius .

As for HML's there range was excessive and gave to much of an advantage to missile spamming gangs, I do tend to think the DPS drop was a little on the high side but not enough to worry me. Try HAM Drakes, they are fun boats and do a good job unless of course you have personal problems with opponents actually being within effective combat range of you.

The fact is that Caldari ships are used more now in PvP (with the exception of the Drake and the Blackbird) than I have seen since I started playing the game. This rebalance has given the Raven a chance to crawl out fo the PvE oubliette it has languished in for years as the T1 cruiser rebalance brought the Caldari hulls back into the light.

If you don't want to see this then that is of course up to you to maintain your delusion of choice.

oh .. so let`s see.. they`ve taken the weapon type that basically would let raven use HALF of the potential dps on it, buffed the dmg of that weapon by 30% (for really slow people.. that`s still worse than torps) and called it a buff? while removing a high slot.. which was normally used to fit a neut or smarty. makes sen...er... :D come back when you`re old enough to buy beer.


How many painters do you run to be able to get any damage application on those torps? Because it's pretty much only on bombers and golems that they do anything good. The explosion velocity is so large you can be at least partially speed tanked by a dread...
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#54 - 2013-06-05 14:42:32 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:

if you`re using a disrupt on a bs with short ranged weaponry.. you really shouldn`t have stopped mining that veldspar.


Oh I see, you want to go toe to toe with a real battleship. Good luck with that.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-06-05 14:43:35 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:

if you`re using a disrupt on a bs with short ranged weaponry.. you really shouldn`t have stopped mining that veldspar.


Oh I see, you want to go toe to toe with a real battleship. Good luck with that.


Brawling in a raven. Talk about no using the right ship for the job...
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#56 - 2013-06-05 14:44:24 UTC
Hey Xamiakas



Do you know my brother, Damien?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-06-05 14:46:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How many painters do you run to be able to get any damage application on those torps? Because it's pretty much only on bombers and golems that they do anything good. The explosion velocity is so large you can be at least partially speed tanked by a dread...


A dread would just eat the damage really, but to address your question; They shoot these. There is cheaper ways to bring down an undefended small tower in a shorter amount of time, but whatever does it for you I guess.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#58 - 2013-06-05 14:46:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:
Samillian wrote:
OP I really don't see what your problem is.

Lets take the Raven with Cruise now doing an extra 30% damage with faster base flight time added to the hulls bonuses this allows you to apply that damage far better than you were before and should more than makes up for the loss of a high slot.

You have increased PG and CPU allowing you better fitting options as well as an additional mid-slot and increased capacitor.

While you have lost some native tank you have gained extra speed a faster align time and a lowered sig radius .

As for HML's there range was excessive and gave to much of an advantage to missile spamming gangs, I do tend to think the DPS drop was a little on the high side but not enough to worry me. Try HAM Drakes, they are fun boats and do a good job unless of course you have personal problems with opponents actually being within effective combat range of you.

The fact is that Caldari ships are used more now in PvP (with the exception of the Drake and the Blackbird) than I have seen since I started playing the game. This rebalance has given the Raven a chance to crawl out fo the PvE oubliette it has languished in for years as the T1 cruiser rebalance brought the Caldari hulls back into the light.

If you don't want to see this then that is of course up to you to maintain your delusion of choice.

oh .. so let`s see.. they`ve taken the weapon type that basically would let raven use HALF of the potential dps on it, buffed the dmg of that weapon by 30% (for really slow people.. that`s still worse than torps) and called it a buff? while removing a high slot.. which was normally used to fit a neut or smarty. makes sen...er... :D come back when you`re old enough to buy beer.


How many painters do you run to be able to get any damage application on those torps? Because it's pretty much only on bombers and golems that they do anything good. The explosion velocity is so large you can be at least partially speed tanked by a dread...

i could tell you that using rage torps to shoot at untackled cruisers is stupid.. but if you haven`t figured that on your own.. doubt it`d do any good. as for HMLs.. range was NOT the only thing they`ve nerfed on them .. fail again?
also .. "The fact is that Caldari ships are used more now in PvP (with the exception of the Drake and the Blackbird) than I have seen since I started playing the game" please.. tell me where exactly did you get THAT fact from ?:D *smells yet another fail"

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.
Combatevolved
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-06-05 14:47:29 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:

if you`re using a disrupt on a bs with short ranged weaponry.. you really shouldn`t have stopped mining that veldspar.


Oh I see, you want to go toe to toe with a real battleship. Good luck with that.


Brawling in a raven. Talk about no using the right ship for the job...


I don't get it.. What is the job of the raven? It can't kite with cruiser missiles...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-06-05 14:51:51 UTC
Combatevolved wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Xamiakas wrote:

if you`re using a disrupt on a bs with short ranged weaponry.. you really shouldn`t have stopped mining that veldspar.


Oh I see, you want to go toe to toe with a real battleship. Good luck with that.


Brawling in a raven. Talk about no using the right ship for the job...


I don't get it.. What is the job of the raven? It can't kite with cruiser missiles...


It's a bad pvp ship unless you build your gang around it. Long range missile are crap because of the damage application delay. Any large missile use in pvp pretty much amount to bombers. It's sad but it's the way the mecanics work right now.