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How are the other PVP entities enjoying targets instantly seeing new signatures?

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Nix Anteris
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#1 - 2013-06-05 10:02:32 UTC
I'm sure the carebears are loving their new early warning system.

How have other peoples experiences been so far? Finding less people in space than usual?

It feels like this is going to be a pain for people who farm their static for tears and corpses.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-05 10:06:14 UTC
Goes both ways I guess. Easier than ever to combat scan people down, and it still depends entirely on whether the prey is paying attention or not, on whether they have a chance to get out or not. In otherwords, in trying to help out the new guys who don't know any better, CCP actually made things harder for them. Then again it's not exactly a bad thing that now they're forced to learn how to pay attention and how to make things safer for themselves.
Vivian Marcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-06-05 10:19:06 UTC
I havent done much testing yet, but is it really instant? the actual scan animation in space only happens every minute or 2.

Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips....
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-06-05 10:20:21 UTC
Well, when farming - most people always had a probe out for new signatures, anyway.
New early-warning may be a slight problem, however it is still better then what we had no too long ago, when capitals simply logged off on-site before being PVP-aggroed.
Nix Anteris
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#5 - 2013-06-05 10:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nix Anteris
Vivian Marcos wrote:
is it really instant?


It really is.

You can test for yourself. Next time you collapse, scan with probes as well as watching the new scanner. The signature will appear in the scanner before you're able to get find it with probes. Meaning it displays there in less time than it takes for probes to run a scan, which approximates to instant.

Borlag Crendraven wrote:
it still depends entirely on whether the prey is paying attention or not, on whether they have a chance to get out or not.


Not as much. It used to require someone actively scanning with probes to see a new incoming wormhole, or actively pressing d-scan to see ships.

Now they are able to be notified automatically, much the same as you see a new ship landing by way of your overview, they see new signatures appear on the scanner. If you have already ignored all signatures in a system, it's still very easy to notice the UI change out of the corner of your eye even if you're not paying attention directly to your scanner window.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#6 - 2013-06-05 10:51:25 UTC
Sounds like I will have to switch tactics from sneaking in to dscan the system cloaked before probing to instantly launching combat probes when going trough a new hole.

Having a probing t3 that can tackle targets also became more important. Goodbye dear Helios.
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#7 - 2013-06-05 10:53:42 UTC
This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.

I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.

And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#8 - 2013-06-05 11:00:10 UTC
But people forget to hit the scan button all the time. Even with a probe out, after a while you scan only every 30 seconds, or every minute, or even less often.

Now you get a new sig popping up on your list without doing anything. That is hard to miss. People who are at least looking at their screen every few seconds will be aware of the new signature before the intruder has even had a chance to jump into the system.

We'll see how it plays out and how it balances itself out with the other changes, but viewing it isolated, there is no doubt imho that it's a significant nerf to the hunters.

.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2013-06-05 11:04:04 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.

I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.

And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.


Big difference though, prior you needed to spam 'scan', now you can just ignore all and wait for a new sig to pop.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-05 11:07:33 UTC
Like said many times over, everything will be easier for those people who already knew how to pay attention while doing things, while it's getting much harder for those who either don't know how to do that or just plain and simply refuse to do that.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-05 11:15:24 UTC
I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#12 - 2013-06-05 11:33:09 UTC
The good thing is you don´t need to check if the ships are at the POS or not anymore. Evil
They are...What?
Meytal
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-06-05 11:55:13 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

On one hand I like seeing the list of sigs in a system when I jump in, but on the other hand I think they shouldn't be discoverable with the naked scanner. That the scanner automatically refreshes is just an issue of convenience vs tedium, and probably should stay.

Personally, I'd like to see sigs require probes again.
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#14 - 2013-06-05 11:56:36 UTC
I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local.

http://www.wormholes.info
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#15 - 2013-06-05 12:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
Lloyd Roses wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.

I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.

And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.


Big difference though, prior you needed to spam 'scan', now you can just ignore all and wait for a new sig to pop.



If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.

If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.

Scout - "New sig guys..."

FC - "When did it pop up?"

Scout - "Idk man I was watching dr who."
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#16 - 2013-06-05 12:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
Nathan Jameson wrote:
I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local.


Although if we could somehow identify people using such a bot, I'd be willing to log out in their system... Twisted

Anyway I don't think botting is viable in w-space combat sites, only for mining. I've never seen someone in w-space who acted like it was a bot.

.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#17 - 2013-06-05 12:21:55 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.

If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.


Not at all. Noticing something pop up on your screen is super-easy. It's like getting an alarm ring from your phone compared to having to remember on your own that you have an appointment. Forgetting the appointment is easy when you are distracted by something else, but you can hardly miss the ringing phone.

.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-06-05 12:27:22 UTC
that QT guy doesn't half talk some shite

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Nix Anteris
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#19 - 2013-06-05 12:51:24 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Not at all. Noticing something pop up on your screen is super-easy. It's like getting an alarm ring from your phone compared to having to remember on your own that you have an appointment. Forgetting the appointment is easy when you are distracted by something else, but you can hardly miss the ringing phone.


This pretty much sums up my opinion of it.

Consider the following.

The new signature appears on your targets scanner when you initiate warp to the new wormhole, and your targets may be on the other side of a large system, not directly visible from the new wormhole. Given the above, it's going to take 2-3 minutes for you to find targets before even getting a fleet in the system and in warp to them.

The new mechanic quite literally does away with the need to have a person whose responsibility it is to hit scan "when they remember to", because now everyone in the system alerted instantly when there is a new signature, they don't even need a probe launcher. The odds of at least one of them even half paying attention is far greater than the odds of the dedicated scanner religiously spamming his scan button.

I'm personally of the opinion that wormholes should not be included in the "discovery scanner"
Duramah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-06-05 13:04:08 UTC
Although the instant sig popup is quite overpowered on the other side you do get to drop your probes instantly. Even though this equals it up a little it's still one sided in favor of the farmer.
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