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Odyssey and Wormhole Security
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Psicose Sexithiophene
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-05 05:04:35 UTC
While I enjoy the new scanning system, and today I was able scan out a site in two - three rounds. I love the fact that it's fast, accessible, and its not pure drudgery. Here comes the but....

Security is now going to be an issue. I knew at my skill, if it took 3-4 min to scan out a site, then it was going to take someone just as long to scan it out as well. This allowed me to sit in a site and mash d-scan to see the probes looking for me. With the quicker times, this may not be the case. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) scanner probes won't show up automagically with the new ship scanning system, and at 30 sec to a min to scan out a site, people are going to have to mash the d-scan button more or risk even more death. (Wormholers look at your index finger, isn't the callous there big enough already Shocked )

The other "but" is in not having to scan out grav sites now. People are going to lose a lot of ships because they don't have to be scanned out. This will deter people from mining in wormholes and without mining, the reward may not be enough to even pay for the POS fuel or keep people in there.

It would be nice to have a conversation here. I have a couple suggestions and any one of these may fix this.

1. Have scanner probes show up on the new scanning system (I can already see the hate mail here for the WH hunters)
2. Make WH grav sites different from others and make them forced to be scanned.
3. Have a motion detection bubble that can be deployed at WH entrances so an alarm goes off when a ship is detected.

Finally on a positive note... I understand there is a certain amount of pride for those of us who had figured out how to scan quickly, (shift, alt, and that "perfect" pattern) but even so, how many can honestly say that they jumped up and down for joy when needing an exit and the new WH that opened up had 40+ sites to be scanned? Lord knows, not me.

Psi
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-05 05:22:54 UTC
I hate to break it to you but the rule of combat probing in WHs is if you don't hit 100% in one scan, you may as well pack up and go home.
This hasnt changed at all with the new system.

The only difference is grav sites which, yes, are now very vulnerable.
I don't mine at all but even I think making them anoms is silly. I guess CCP just thought miners are too lazy to scan so made it easier for them right?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children
#3 - 2013-06-05 05:30:42 UTC
The biggest annoyance when flashing in a WH stacked with anoms & sigs is that your screen is suddenly all green & red and you've to bloody wait till they disappear.
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
1. Have scanner probes show up on the new scanning system (I can already see the hate mail here for the WH hunters)

With a correct filter set you should be able to see those. Why else do you have dscan?
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
2. Make WH grav sites different from others and make them forced to be scanned.

A big annoyance, the old system was more enjoyable indeed.
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
3. Have a motion detection bubble that can be deployed at WH entrances so an alarm goes off when a ship is detected.

Bubble the WH or cycle it and drop a cloaked pilot with probes on it isn't that hard right? Certainly now with new sound when somebody jumps in.

It's only managing and securing your wh as a corp now when willing to mine. This gives that a solo person wouldn't have much to find in there in case of mining.

.EC.. of [TOHA], Industrialists with guns. We're overe there, some where and no where... Contacting go through ingame convo's .EC.. and [TOHA] are recruiting, get in contact with us
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-05 05:37:21 UTC
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
without mining, the reward may not be enough to even pay for the POS fuel or keep people in there.


Honestly if Anyone in WH space is relying on mining income to justify living there, they are doing it wrong.


Jack Miton wrote:
I hate to break it to you but the rule of combat probing in WHs is if you don't hit 100% in one scan, you may as well pack up and go home.
This hasnt changed at all with the new system.


Pretty much this. Keep in mind that even with gravs as anoms. That only gives someone a warpin to the anom. Depending on what asteroid you are mining that can easily put you quite far from the warp in.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-05 05:51:26 UTC
The problem won't be that they won't have to scan you, it will be that you don't know that they're inside because you are not running proper security measures. The window for you to see combat scanner probes on d-scan on a "good" combat prober before was only about 8-15 seconds.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Nanuuk33
Nuuk's Nookie Monsters
#6 - 2013-06-05 07:21:43 UTC
Honestly, I thought this thread was going to go the other way from the title....

I think WH's are more easily secure than before. If you have all your sites scanned down and the sig written down and the K162's closed, it's easier to know if an incoming WH has appeared. Basically, you just keep your scanner running and you'll see a red symbol in the sky of a sig you don't recognize. Simply warp out, figure what's going down, then get back to business. Obviously, this isn't as efficient as having probes out or a dedicated sig watcher, but if solo'n, it works well in conjunction with D-Scan. Also, if you can fit a probe launcher on your ship and have the ship scanner running, you can see the sigs pop up in list form w/o even having probes out (not sure if this is intended though).

TL:DR -
To me, it is slightly easier to scan down people, but even easier to recognize you could be in danger.
Psicose Sexithiophene
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-06-05 07:22:33 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Honestly if Anyone in WH space is relying on mining income to justify living there, they are doing it wrong.


True, but for those of us not blessed with a large WH crew and are stuck in C3's or C2's, mining is what you do while waiting for more sites.

Derath Ellecon wrote:
That only gives someone a warpin to the anom. Depending on what asteroid you are mining that can easily put you quite far from the warp in.


Correct me if I am wrong, but the recon ship warps to the anom, flies to 3500 meters off the enemy, corp bookmarks and all his friends warp to that.

Svodola Darkfury wrote:
The window for you to see combat scanner probes on d-scan on a "good" combat prober before was only about 8-15 seconds..


8-15 seconds? Took longer than that just to put out the probes, but even so, with the changes, everyone now can scan you out in that amount of time. So instead of 1 out of 100 pilots having those kinds of skills, in a matter of a couple days everyone can have those skills. Grav sites will become worthless in WHs is my prediction.

And before anyone says that I want WH space to be safer, that is not what I am saying... part of the fun is being diligent and knowing that at any time someone could be there to blow your **** up. Its part of the rush. This however may be a big game changer as the defensive mechanism has been slashed quite a bit and the d-scan paranoia finger will become arthritic much quicker.
Psicose Sexithiophene
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-05 07:23:50 UTC
Nanuuk33 wrote:


TL:DR -
To me, it is slightly easier to scan down people, but even easier to recognize you could be in danger.


good point
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-05 07:55:38 UTC
Anyone notice an increase in WH's in your WH? My corpies are saying there's like an extra 5 WHs leading into our space. (We've had mutliple WHs before but never this many)
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#10 - 2013-06-05 08:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
I love that they changed grav sites to anomalies. Not because I believe it's good or bad for miners or gankers – it's obviously bad for the miners, which in turn makes mining so dangerous that no one will do it anymore with an open wormhole in system, so it's also bad for gankers –, but because the removal of all the grav sigs cuts down on sigs we need to scan.

Let's face it, 99% of the grav sites we scanned outside of our home system were never used, neither by us nor as bookmarks for ganking someone mining there. They are totally worthless for everyone. I'm glad there are now only low-level ladar sites left as sigs that are completely useless but must still be scanned to >25%.

.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-05 08:30:45 UTC
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
8-15 seconds? Took longer than that just to put out the probes, but even so, with the changes, everyone now can scan you out in that amount of time. So instead of 1 out of 100 pilots having those kinds of skills, in a matter of a couple days everyone can have those skills. Grav sites will become worthless in WHs is my prediction.


That's why you dropped them out of dscan range to the target, and moved them on top of the sucker after verifying his rough location with dscan.

Grav sites are still more than doable if you just pay attention to newly spawning incoming holes (the new overlay or probe pickets help with this) as well as dscan. Additionally mining in ventures makes you almost completely safe since your align time will be simply too fast for stuff to point you and you still have enough time to warp out when stuff appears on grid, before they can lock a thing. All that it means is that you can't be afk and you have to pay attention, if you don't want to do either, stay in high sec. Seriously.
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-05 08:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
haha, this guy.

I can only support you on your grav site problem. But to be honest, I like not scanning them now because it was unpleasant to scan them over and over.

Accept your risks in wormhole space.

The Guns of Knowledge 
Liptrip
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-06-05 09:04:48 UTC
Soko99 wrote:
Anyone notice an increase in WH's in your WH? My corpies are saying there's like an extra 5 WHs leading into our space. (We've had mutliple WHs before but never this many)


It's because pretty much everyone is on and about scanning right now.
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-05 09:15:52 UTC
Liptrip wrote:
Soko99 wrote:
Anyone notice an increase in WH's in your WH? My corpies are saying there's like an extra 5 WHs leading into our space. (We've had mutliple WHs before but never this many)


It's because pretty much everyone is on and about scanning right now.



Makes sense.. Let's hope it dies off.. I liked my quiet system.. plus want to test out the new hacking game without having to worry about covering 8 exits.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-05 09:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Borlag Crendraven
There's a bright side to it as well... The amount of daytrippers that dont' realize to jump back into high sec and just sit on the hole only to get blown up and podded out is quite high. 3 and counting in the last 2 hours alone... And it's not like I even have to camp the hole, spot it on dscan and warp there, plenty of time to catch them that way too heh
Psicose Sexithiophene
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-06-05 16:46:50 UTC
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
There's a bright side to it as well... The amount of daytrippers that dont' realize to jump back into high sec and just sit on the hole only to get blown up and podded out is quite high. 3 and counting in the last 2 hours alone... And it's not like I even have to camp the hole, spot it on dscan and warp there, plenty of time to catch them that way too heh


Twisted
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-05 17:39:49 UTC
Nanuuk33 wrote:
TL:DR -
To me, it is slightly easier to scan down people, but even easier to recognize you could be in danger.

This about sums up my opinion
Zlorthishen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-05 19:26:10 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Let's face it, 99% of the grav sites we scanned outside of our home system were never used, neither by us nor as bookmarks for ganking someone mining there. They are totally worthless for everyone. I'm glad there are now only low-level ladar sites left as sigs that are completely useless but must still be scanned to >25%.


I agree. Its much easier to find wormholes and good gas sites now.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#19 - 2013-06-05 19:53:03 UTC
I don't know if vets here have realized on how easy CCP made the ganking mini game.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-06-05 20:43:38 UTC
Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:

True, but for those of us not blessed with a large WH crew and are stuck in C3's or C2's, mining is what you do while waiting for more sites.


I've lived in everything from solo C1 up through small corp C4. Still never bothered to resort to mining. You gotta be pretty bored to get to that point.

C1- HS or LS, just go roam, pop out and explore, lots of fun stuff you can do when the WH is empty
C2- Double static. There are always sites to run.
C3- Same as C1. read above.

Psicose Sexithiophene wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the recon ship warps to the anom, flies to 3500 meters off the enemy, corp bookmarks and all his friends warp to that.


Yes while avoiding the devloak by the ASTEROID FIELD. I've done it. Not as easy as it seems. But yes this is a concern. But honestly this is a concern for anyone mining, even pre-odyssey. I've caught miners that I had scanned the grav earlier in the day and just waited. You actually have it better now, since the overlay scanner shows new sigs without needing probes. Something a mining barge couldn't do before.
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