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What Eve has taught me - what has it taught you?

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#21 - 2013-06-04 23:32:50 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

WELL THEN PUT SOME EFFORT INTO PROVIDING THOSE MODULES.

You'll make a killing on the lazies that don't wanna goto highsec to get supplies.

People live in ALL the sec zones even if the markets are in highsec doesnt mean people from the otherzones care to actually travel there to get their stuff.


Sry - which null sec station do you own that allows people to come to you and get your goods? You said it yourself, proving my point - you get the stuff in high-sec!!!
So If I want a ship and modules where do I go? Goonswarm territory where I can't dock - low sec where everyone is flashy red ... NO... HIGH- SEC!!!


You rent from goons and make billions providing them with ammo as you make daily/weekly trips to highsec for supplies

Either that or you start building them there yourself.

There's such a thing as NPC station too ya know?

The Drake is a Lie
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-06-04 23:34:40 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

WELL THEN PUT SOME EFFORT INTO PROVIDING THOSE MODULES.

You'll make a killing on the lazies that don't wanna goto highsec to get supplies.

People live in ALL the sec zones even if the markets are in highsec doesnt mean people from the otherzones care to actually travel there to get their stuff.


Sry - which null sec station do you own that allows people to come to you and get your goods? You said it yourself, proving my point - you get the stuff in high-sec!!!
So If I want a ship and modules where do I go? Goonswarm territory where I can't dock - low sec where everyone is flashy red ... NO... HIGH- SEC!!!


Maybe you could make a deal with an alliance to keep a system safe (ok, relatively) in order to establish a null trade hub from which they could benefit through tax or something? Dunno, seems like a business opportunity there if you're prepared to put the work in..
Zak Breen
Breen Enterprises
#23 - 2013-06-04 23:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zak Breen
If it's not worth the effort or risk - to you - then don't do it. Risk is risk: sometimes it works out very well while other times it will be a catastrophe. That's life, that's EVE, and that's all to be said.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of not knowing. http://www.di.fm/spacemusic
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#24 - 2013-06-04 23:36:47 UTC
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Just quit the damn game. Jesus.


Thank you for your input - name is Klandi - Jesus is my alt :)

One of the reasons I put this out there is to highlight a problem that needs addressing - become part of the solution type stuff. Would like to see what Eve has taught you

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#25 - 2013-06-04 23:39:02 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

WELL THEN PUT SOME EFFORT INTO PROVIDING THOSE MODULES.

You'll make a killing on the lazies that don't wanna goto highsec to get supplies.

People live in ALL the sec zones even if the markets are in highsec doesnt mean people from the otherzones care to actually travel there to get their stuff.


Sry - which null sec station do you own that allows people to come to you and get your goods? You said it yourself, proving my point - you get the stuff in high-sec!!!
So If I want a ship and modules where do I go? Goonswarm territory where I can't dock - low sec where everyone is flashy red ... NO... HIGH- SEC!!!


You rent from goons and make billions providing them with ammo as you make daily/weekly trips to highsec for supplies

Either that or you start building them there yourself.

There's such a thing as NPC station too ya know?


OK - but what has Eve taught you?

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-06-04 23:41:57 UTC
So if you want to build, why do you care where you build it. Of course the areas of highest population will support a manufacturing infrastructure.

I'd be willing to bet if you REALLY wanted, you could find people and build up your own nullsec manufacturing and market hub somewhere. Jita wasn't built in a day either.

And no, you can make loads of isk outside of HS. I haven't made any isk in HS in probably 2 years.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#27 - 2013-06-04 23:50:30 UTC
I'm too tired to read the first post in it's entirety, I guess OP should be glad hisec will be little less crowded without him? My market orders in Great Wildlands are doing great by the way. I've made money in about every sec there is, enough to fuel my pvp needs without resorting to alts or buying PLEX. Leave if you must, I'm sticking around. I'm pretty good at entertaining myself with internet spaceships business and space bubble castles.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#28 - 2013-06-04 23:52:22 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So if you want to build, why do you care where you build it. Of course the areas of highest population will support a manufacturing infrastructure.

I'd be willing to bet if you REALLY wanted, you could find people and build up your own nullsec manufacturing and market hub somewhere. Jita wasn't built in a day either.

And no, you can make loads of isk outside of HS. I haven't made any isk in HS in probably 2 years.


Outside of highsec you lose exponentially more than you make, that is an iron rule of eve.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-06-04 23:57:22 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
You rent from goons and make billions providing them with ammo as you make daily/weekly trips to highsec for supplies


Ah, using newbie land (safety) to get the mats for the ISK. So that newbie land no longer resembles it, with null corps sucking up the very mats the newbies even need to start mining. So when they ask in local about where's the 'roids, all the folks can say is, "try tomorrow".

This sounds like that EvE dev that mentioned about the bot/IsBox problem in ice mining, but never addressing how that became what it became and why it exists.

Why?

$$$

High sec trade is tolerated along with IsBox and even bots if it fills the till. Meanwhile, the game itself and quality of life issues are ignored. Ignore it and it might go away. Ignore it so some prison gang like corp can rule. Ignore it so folks will just buy PLEX in packs of 6/8/12 like good "whales".

Big PvP game and this "answer" is priceless...

Xercodo wrote:
There's such a thing as NPC station too ya know?


/facepalm

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
kilteroff
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-06-05 00:03:42 UTC
Eve has taught me that nullbears are endlessly hilarious.

My brain has taught me if you play a game but don't enjoy it you're the one at fault, and you're likely avoiding real life; that family you mention.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#31 - 2013-06-05 00:08:44 UTC
kilteroff wrote:
Eve has taught me that nullbears are endlessly hilarious.

My brain has taught me if you play a game but don't enjoy it you're the one at fault, and you're likely avoiding real life; that family you mention.


That is the one thing I will hate about leaving this game - the people in it are amazing. From the crazy devs to the maniac nullsec, they are better than watching telly.

So... family calls ...

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Akaraut
Dawn and Dusk Industries
#32 - 2013-06-05 00:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Akaraut
A large part of why i feel hi'sec is where a lot of isk is gained is mainly down to us players. There are no big signs put up by CCP saying 'trade all your stuffs here', because over the lifespan of the game this is where players have naturally congregated, be it because it's a mission hub, mining hub, or whatever. After these places become popular, people find that where lots of people gather, the easier it is to buy and sell items, thus a market hub is born. Even if the original reason why the market hub came to be changes, people new and old still come back, as it's usefulness to us players is now cemented.

Security has a major factor in this as well, many people will bring items found from far in to low-sec, null and WH space just to sell it, not only as a place to guarantee items selling, but as a place they can be safe to sell their loot and base themselves.

Logistics. WH space it not a trade hub, as it would be utterly insane to try with the randomness of WHs. WHs are afterall a place to find loot, rather than a place to sell it. Low'sec and null'sec aren't so much of a no brainer for sellers as the risks/effort vs reward goes up a lot. So there needs to be better reason to trade there than in hi'sec. Supplying alliances, fueling pos's, supplying factional warefare, filling in a gap in the market where there is high enough demand and just simply to cut down the travel time are good reason to sell out in low/null sec fro those who put in a bit of effort and planning. Many people would be more than willing to pay 20% more for a module 5 jumps way, than go for the cheapest deal 20 jumps away.

Now where it gets complicated is how you define making money. Is it just the isk in your wallet or do the asset values of the items you loot and let sit in storage count too. Imho it's both, as items sat in storage have a variable value of their own, it's why people hoard items, to sell when prices are high. With this in mind, a LOT of money in variable asset values is made in WH, low/null sec, hi'sec is just the main place to safely turn those asset values in to isk.

Klandi wrote:
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low
A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec


So for the reasons above, i respectfully disagree with that answer, as ISK is not the only thing that can be counted as money in eve, just gaining items makes you money. Hi'sec in the end is just a very popular place to turn those assets in to ISK due to the safety and number of people to buy your items.

EDIT

Oh and this is what EVE has taught me.

There is a reason for everything, you might just need to look at it from a different angle to see it.

But most of all:

PATIENCE! This game has taught me a very harsh lesson in patience, wait and work for it long enough and you'll get your payoff, big or small. A lesson that i thank this games learning curve for.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#33 - 2013-06-05 00:54:19 UTC
Klandi wrote:


OK - but what has Eve taught you?


To second guess things like plausibility of crazy money schemes or even the safety of the next system over.

To stay organized.

To see the opportunities in every thing.

To take some risks once in a while, but to have a plan in case they backfire...

The Drake is a Lie
Freakdevil
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-05 01:09:31 UTC
EVE is a harsh cold place .... well not really. You are obviously not happy about the game for whatever reason - likely to do with some personal event that has triggered a rethink of your leisure time. Whatever the case you need to consider a game that upsets you is not a game but a problem.

Take a few months off, clear your head and then come back fresh. The game requires it. And yes, you will be back.
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#35 - 2013-06-05 01:27:23 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low
A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec

Reasoning:

You build ships - the general rabble sell them in Jita or surrounding sales hubs so you have to sell them there as well.
You mine - and you need to sell the resulting mins - in a high sec trade hub
You make components/ammo etc - you have to sell them in high sec to make money.
Buying BPs and shipping them out to null is essential only to make supers.

Proof:

Let's paint the normal scenario of existing in Eve.
Lets say you are a builder of BS and Carriers and you want to sell them to fund your playing experience. You want to do this in null sec.
You need the BP, mins and skills. Got the money to purchase said items? No - mine or mission or buy all required items by selling PLEX. OK - got the cash now buy the BPOs in null... no, low sec maybe ...no ...HIGH SEC!

The next step assumes you are crazy enough (or have the brosefs around) to get the BP from high-sec to null without gettting ganked. Let us also assume you have null sec space because you have either captured the space or have entered into an agreement that allows you to dock and use station slots.

Having succeed getting them into your space - the next step is to prepare the BP to be cost effective - that will require time and station/POS facilities,
So you get the mins in null (if you can mine them), build the ships in null -but can't get everything you want to fit in the ships in null so you got to go where they are being sold - high sec.
SO many stages that adds SO much risk and then you find that cost wise, they are cheaper in high sec. So you end up thinking ... why the hassle?
IT IS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT OR THE RISK


tl;dr Morale of the story is if you are a builder and you want to make real money, you HAVE to go to high sec to sell - you cannot sell it in substantial numbers in null hence you cannot make the money you need to make in null.


Q: Why do Vets leave Eve?
A: It becomes a job

Reasoning:

As most forum posts will point out - you need to be part of a group to do most things in Eve (to accomplish significant goals). That means that in the majority of cases those that wish to play solo will get bored more quickly and leave. If you want good fites you need to be part of a null sec alliance, being subject to the rules and conditions of the group.
This means your Eve time becomes a job - a place that requires your application and time, consuming more time as more requirements present themselves to be fulfilled. Then there is the need for self-sufficiency which necessitates a ratting grind or a trip to high sec to sell the stuff you have made in null (with all the risks included).

After 5 yrs of doing this you think - no more - I don't want a non-paying job or the hassle of defending a pixel landscape with a group of great like-minded people, or the grind for pixel money - my family deserve my full attention as they are not pixels...


tl;dr We already have a life and Eve only takes away from it (although it takes a few years to realise).
There is no way of playing a small game of Eve


People complain that skill = skill points
If a 6mth newb that has trained his rifter and associated skills to lvl5 - comes across a 6yr old vet that is in a rifter - that is a level playing field ship wise. If a 1v1 situation occurrs in that scenario, you are left with skill as the decider. The ONLY thing the vet has over the newb is lots more choice.

What has Eve taught you?



I am a vet and i have been playing eve for nearly 7 years.

I still love eve so what if people like high sec.

Let them do what they want to do and stop complaining.

If you want to leave eve please do so.

But for the last 6.8 years of me playing eve i have enjoyed it.

I have slowed down a bit but still enjoying eve.

We all know that RL takes preference over playing games but allot of people do it for the social aspect of playing eve.

And eve has a social community thats why i love this game it just keeps me going.







**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-06-05 01:34:40 UTC
Blah blah blah...

Look...play the game if you like it. Have fun if you can. If you can't and you don't like the game, leave...don't whine like a little prat on the forums about it.

God...I have played a hundred MMO's and I have never gone on the forums and wrote a letter to the editor on why I am leaving. Just ******* leave. You will be back and you know it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-06-05 02:07:26 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
If you can't and you don't like the game, leave


Real good advertising there. Just hunker down and turn the game into a dinosaur full of Bitter vets, right?

CCP marketing department will sure love all the new "whales" fleeing to the other F2P games that treat them as VIPs, too.

-_-

Games don't have to worry about the competition. They have to worry about the very population they attract and cater too, and in EvE, it's anarchy and sociopathy (fine combo for disintegration).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#38 - 2013-06-05 02:24:50 UTC
...Except that in every instance that a newbie has shown all the qualities attributed to a good EVE player and an overall great person (Taking responsibility for their own actions, doing their research on what they're getting into, not being an obnoxious know-it-all) - They've always been treated well by the majority of the EVE population.

Perhaps the problem lies not with the "dinosaur" of a game or its "awful, sociopathic" playerbase then, but in the attitudes of those who believe that new player retention is an excuse for justifying that every new player should be mollycoddled "like VIPs".
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-06-05 02:52:26 UTC
not a vet but this game has taught me something very important:

the good spots are in the hands of the wrong people, i mean, no matter how much buffs gives CCP to null sec industry, it will never be viable unless alliances and corporations actually make use of it. and unless players learn to actually take the risk, and allow the other people to take the risk of living in null. but with all those bubbles and gatecamps and griefers, null sec will never be as profitable as high sec, industry wise...
pug lei
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#40 - 2013-06-05 03:19:42 UTC
The only reason I spend time in Hisec is RL limits the time per session I can play. Been to Low, Null, High, and Wspace and made money from industry related endeavors in all of them.

As far as all the good spots being taken, I can 100% guarantee that aint so.

You just gotta be smarter than the metagame is all.