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Obama announces complete withdrawal of US troops from Iraq by year's end

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Author
SpaceSquirrels
#21 - 2011-10-22 15:03:34 UTC
Iraq ever pay off it's war debt to the other arab nations from the Iran Iraq war? And the war with Kuwait?
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-10-22 15:30:34 UTC
I really don't understand why CCP doesn't want us to discuss politics. I mean this is the right section on the forums and this isn't kindergarten anymore. Iraq is sooooo last decennia... Pakistan, Serbia and Iran is were the action is.

[i]~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~   ~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~[/i]

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#23 - 2011-10-22 16:30:09 UTC
Adunh Slavy
#24 - 2011-10-22 17:53:52 UTC



US Gov hasn't been following the rule of law inside its own borders for years. Sure won't follow them outside. IMF has its outpost in Iraq now though, so sure they're not too upset, besides, now they own Libya too. Banner day for the bankers.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Zyck
Malleus Caelum
#25 - 2011-10-22 23:48:39 UTC
Yes all that Libyan oil that was before going to Europe will now, thankfully, go to...Europe.
Mohr Cowbell
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-22 23:55:21 UTC
I'm glad he had the balls to go ahead and do this. I think the only people benefiting from the Iraq deployment now are the defense contractors, the locals providing services to the bases, and (believe it or not) the troops who want that hazardous duty pay...



Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#27 - 2011-10-23 08:36:05 UTC
Hazardous duty pay is nothing. It's like 150 extra bucks a month. It's the tax free pay that people don't mind. However, it still isn't enough to make people WANT to go downrange. It's not like European militaries who basically bribe their soldiers into going downrange by paying them exorbitant amounts of money, things like 30,000 euros in 6 months.

No, there is definitely no money in going downrange. You may get enough to put a down payment on a car or something, but no one's buying houses.
Adunh Slavy
#28 - 2011-10-23 08:41:54 UTC
Mohr Cowbell wrote:
I'm glad he had the balls to go ahead and do this. I think the only people benefiting from the Iraq deployment now are the defense contractors, the locals providing services to the bases, and (believe it or not) the troops who want that hazardous duty pay...



He didn't "do this" the Iraqis and Bush did this. The status of forces agrement was set to expire as had been agreed to before Obama took office. Last week Leon Penetta, head of the department of defense, publicly stated that the current administration was trying to extend the SoF. Obama was trying to stay longer.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-10-23 09:29:31 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Sorry doood but Leon Penetta, Head of DOD, just last week was attempting to get the SoF extended with the Iraqis. They said no, so now thee troops are out. Maybe you should pick up a newspaper from time to time.



Because that is THE FIRST TIME EVER that anyone has put something in a newspaper to suggest the troops should come home.

I reiterate. Even if you are correct and the troops come home on this time table exactly, it is BY ACCIDENT that you are correct. Nothing new has happened. You are still not privy to all the knowledge and machinations of the president's position and there is a clear trend, no... CYCLE... of this promise being made, celebrated, slowly backed off from, and being made again. You should be ashamed of your gulibility that you will celebtrate Obama or Bush for 'doing this' two months before it's done.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#30 - 2011-10-23 09:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Astenion
I don't think you realize that it's not up to the President; it's up to the Iraqis. The Iraqis are forcing the troops to come home because they won't renew their immunity.

You're being gullible if you think the President still has the power to keep them there. It's not up to him; they're effectively being evicted. Do you think Obama's just going to ignore them or something?
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-10-23 09:39:31 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Astenion wrote:
You're being gullible if you think the President still has the power to keep them there. It's not up to him; they're effectively being evicted. Do you think Obama's just going to ignore them or something?


You're right. Our country could never put troops into another country without their permission. That's silly of me.

Oh wait...









Astenion wrote:
I don't think you realize that it's not up to the President; it's up to the Iraqis. The Iraqis are forcing the troops to come home because they won't renew their immunity.

You're being gullible if you think the President still has the power to keep them there. It's not up to him; they're effectively being evicted. Do you think Obama's just going to ignore them or something?



Do I think they will? You seem to think I'm arguing for one side or another that they will or will not come home. I make no assumptions, I'm not arguing that they are not coming home. I'm arguing against believing the news has consequence either way.

And no they won't 'ignore' if they stay.
They will just...
Delay. Justify. Consult. Train. Reinforce.
Reorganize to different areas.
Be 'on call' just over the border.
Play a 'support role'.
Play a 'non-combat' role.
They will simply be 'staging' for 'contingencies'.
Be 'in process' of returning.
Be 'wrapping up ongoing operations'.

Have you no imagination?



The Iraqis also did not 'kick us out' they refused to give immunities but WANTED THE TROOPS TO STAY.

Quote:
...but the Iraqis wanted additional troops to stay. We said here are the conditions, including immunities. But the Iraqis because of a variety of reasons wanted the troops and didn’t want to give immunity.


If they reconsider next week you'll just continue with your fantasy where this statement meant anything at all. We'll be discussing what he'll do next all over again waiting to throw another party when he makes another promise with another deadline after a new deal and a new set of circumstances for you to vomit on to web boards.

If they don't, and we really do pull out... you'll still do the same thing the next time he makes a promise. You'll let the government drag your family, maybe your own children, through another country and another war with short term promises about whatever they can think of.

My point is not, and has not been in this thread, anything about 'IF' his statement is true.
My point is that you should not give him and the tidbits you know, the credit that you do.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#32 - 2011-10-23 09:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Astenion
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Astenion wrote:
I don't think you realize that it's not up to the President; it's up to the Iraqis. The Iraqis are forcing the troops to come home because they won't renew their immunity.

You're being gullible if you think the President still has the power to keep them there. It's not up to him; they're effectively being evicted. Do you think Obama's just going to ignore them or something?



Do I think they will? You seem to think I'm arguing for one side or another that they will or will not com home. I make no assumptions, I'm not arguing that they are not coming home. I'm arguing against believing the news has consequence either way.

And no they won't 'ignore' if they stay.
They will just...
Delay. Justify. Consult. Train. Reinforce.
Reorganize to different areas.
Be 'on call' just over the border.
Play a 'support role'.
Play a 'non-combat' role.
They will simply be 'staging' for 'contingencies'.
Be 'in process' of returning.
Be 'wrapping up ongoing operations'.

Have you no imagination?


You make a good point, but I think you're letting your imagination run wild a bit. You need to balance it with facts and not assumptions. Let's look at it this way:

Delay: Impossible. The agreement was signed by the Iraqis and US forces to be out by the end of 2011. They tried to do just what you said by justifying, consulting, etc. However, the Iraqis were only willing to give in as long as they didn't have immunity, which is complete and utter lunacy. It's basically a nice way of the Iraqi government telling the US to GTFO because they know they'd never agree to non-immunity status.

Reorganize to different areas: Which areas? In Iraq? That of course would be impossible. Saudi Arabia? Impossible. The Saudi Prince has already evicted all US forces from Saudi Arabia years ago. Turkey? US forces have been in Turkey for decades. Kuwait? US forces have been in Kuwait for decades. It will essentially go back to post-Gulf War status from 1991 for OSW, but since you probably don't even know what that is, that's Operation Southern Watch, which was ended at the beginning of the war in 2003. Nothing strange about that. Did you think everyone just up and moved from the US and NATO countries to Iraq in 2003? They've been in Kuwait, Turkey, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, and before the war in Saudi Arabia for decades on regular temporary duty (TDY) rotations. To return to their previous mission of tripwire defense would only be logical.

Be on call just over the border: Again, it will go back to post-Gulf War status from 1991. This is a given. However, the troops in Iraq will simply go home and steady rotations will most probably re-commence in Turkey and Kuwait. This would only be logical.

Play a "support" role: Here's a clue: they're already playing a support role and have been for about 2 years. Next.

Play a "non combat" role: That would be considered the aforementioned "support" role. They've already stated there will be a few left behind to help train Iraqi soldiers. Did you read the article?

Staging for contingencies: What does that even mean? That's like everything you've already posted lumped into one.

Be "in process" of returning: So you think it's like promising your landlord to pay him next week because you're late with the rent? You really have no idea how any of this works.

"Wrapping up" ongoing operations: What operations? They're just sitting there right now. They've already moved outside all the cities and have let the Iraqi forces take over everything...like, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

You need a little less imagination and a little more understanding of how this works. You've obviously never been there or you'd know how these types of operations work.
Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#33 - 2011-10-23 10:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Astenion
VKhaun Vex wrote:
You're right. Our country could never put troops into another country without their permission. That's silly of me.

Oh wait...


That's exactly right. Our country has never put any large contingent of troops in any country without said country's permission. If you're talking about war, then you're an idiot because the entire premise of an invasion is TO INVADE.

Do you think all the troops all over the world are there because the US just said, "Ok, we're gonna put these people here and there's nothing you can do about it!"? I certainly hope not. That's where the aforementioned SOFA comes in.

The US RENTS bases from the government and pays them billions and billions per year to keep them there. The countries are happy to have them because it's a strong boost to their economy. That's right, they RENT things. Everything from energy to fuel to jobs are paid by the US government to these countries. Ever notice how overseas we have Aviano Air Base and in the states we have Langley Air FORCE Base? That's because overseas bases don't belong to us...they're leased. I'm sure you'd like to believe that they're just an evil empire that just puts its troops where it wants without permission, but that would be considered an act of war. Why do you think Pakistan is so up in arms about the special forces assassinating OBL? Even though it was a small team of people there for no more than an hour, it was still a hostile act on Pakistan's soil.

And OF COURSE they wanted American troops to stay. Just like NATO, the Arab League countries will always be willing to fight to the last American. However, they only wanted them to stay so they wouldn't have to do anything and still make tons of money doing it. The US has realized this since the beginning, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY YOU MUST HAVE IMMUNITY. When things go wrong, you don't want to be forced to turn over your own forces to some third-world country's police. That would be the dumbest thing ever to agree to.

Now, I DO agree with something you said. I agree that they could all change their minds and agree to the immunity and keep people there. However, I think now that the ball is rolling that Obama will not reneg on his promise to uphold the previously stated timeline for bringing them home. It would be career suicide.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-10-23 10:30:06 UTC
Khors wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

I don't know what's worse. The lying media sock puppets or the people who believe them.


The puppets that look at opposing media channels and believe that instead.




tbh the worst is both sides throwing tantrums at each other like two kids fighting for that sandbox in pre-school.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#35 - 2011-10-23 10:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Astenion
ACK! double post
Adunh Slavy
#36 - 2011-10-23 13:15:56 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Sorry doood but Leon Penetta, Head of DOD, just last week was attempting to get the SoF extended with the Iraqis. They said no, so now thee troops are out. Maybe you should pick up a newspaper from time to time.



Because that is THE FIRST TIME EVER that anyone has put something in a newspaper to suggest the troops should come home.

I reiterate. Even if you are correct and the troops come home on this time table exactly, it is BY ACCIDENT that you are correct. Nothing new has happened. You are still not privy to all the knowledge and machinations of the president's position and there is a clear trend, no... CYCLE... of this promise being made, celebrated, slowly backed off from, and being made again. You should be ashamed of your gulibility that you will celebtrate Obama or Bush for 'doing this' two months before it's done.



I'm not celebarting anyone, sorry. Find someone else to blame.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#37 - 2011-10-24 02:26:45 UTC
Astenion wrote:
VKhaun Vex wrote:
You're right. Our country could never put troops into another country without their permission. That's silly of me.

Oh wait...


That's exactly right. Our country has never put any large contingent of troops in any country without said country's permission. If you're talking about war, then you're an idiot because the entire premise of an invasion is TO INVADE.

.




True, but to invade for the right reasons however, wich there never were any weapons of mass destruction in iraq period, then the argument for being there changed to fighting al-queda when the brunt of al-queda forces were in afghanistan and pakistan anyhow....


The invasion of iraq was a massive fuckup of epic proportions basically, and nothing but that.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2011-10-24 04:15:57 UTC
Anyone who really believes Obama wanted them all out should be asking themselves why he tried to extend the agreement. Either way, they're not going far.

Just to Pakistan for a little while. Maybe Iran. I dunno where all Obama will go. He's got troops in Uganda now. Who the hell even knows where Uganda is on a map?
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#39 - 2011-10-24 04:45:28 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
Anyone who really believes Obama wanted them all out should be asking themselves why he tried to extend the agreement. Either way, they're not going far.

Just to Pakistan for a little while. Maybe Iran. I dunno where all Obama will go. He's got troops in Uganda now. Who the hell even knows where Uganda is on a map?



Hehe.... Can't afford it as the deficit is 1.4 trillion for 2011 and the USA will bust the debt ceiling limit agreed at the last minute about 6 months ago in congress by late 2012 / early 2013....That's right, 16 trillion dollars in debt and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.


Just the interest payments on that massive debt probably takes a decent chunk of the USA's yearly federal budget and it never goes down...
BLACK-STAR
#40 - 2011-10-24 07:04:06 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
He's got troops in Uganda now. Who the hell even knows where Uganda is on a map?
Uganda is a small country in africa that has human rights problems, particularly their recent bill criminalizing homosexuality which is life imprisonment or punishable by death.


Obama can say whatever he wants, the troops are not all going back to America, this is just meaningless talk.. like the dozen other blahblahderp excuses they make. obama is pretty fail and can't do anything as he already sold his oath to the IBC pretty much.
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