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[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-06-05 04:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Someone mentioned WOW in here and how its much worse then EVE when it comes to harassing of female players.
I will say yes and no to this.


In WoW it's not as worse because the game has so many players (1 account = 50 alts; 10 x 5 realms) that the dude joking about making him a bacon sandwich, you'll probably never see again. Two ships in the night deal.

EvE, name changes don't even exist, and it's one server. Your chances to be harassed is 10x greater with little recourse.

In WoW if a dude becomes creepy, it's a note to a GM. If the dude goes bonkers and creates a level 1 to harass, that note turns into a vacation from the game. He can pay $10 and change his nick, but the GM knows who he is and his penalty volcano follows him for the life of his account. He "disappears" if he values his time and money. And Blizzard has been really policing that stuff now, my realm's trade chat looks pretty much like some MUDs I played years ago. The buttwipes got their 48hr warnings, and the next will be a permanent chat ban. It's getting strict on that stuff now.

So yes WoW has a lot of kids (I feel like a Den mom there), but for a woman gamer you're pretty safe. I haven't played EvE long as I played WoW to see how staff handles creeps, so until then I won't comment on how CCP treats ingame harassment.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-06-05 05:21:19 UTC
Simply put, trying to get more of any demographic without understanding what you're selling is going to set you up for failure. Firstly, EVE isn't a male-only game. It's a spaceship/scifi only game. EVE being spaceship/scifi focused in this decade puts it at a disadvantage.against other games in general. Look at the dozens of fantasy games that have come and gone over the last five years and you'll see that EVE and other scifi franchises are pretty rare (This even includes big name franchises like Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed). And furthermore, scifi as a general fiction genre is at it's lows right now in terms of fan-base overall. So, I really don't see how CCP is suppose to grow EVE into a larger segment of any population regardless of demographic if that demographic in general does not find scifi or spaceships appealing.

I'm not trying to be mean about this, but it's just plain dumb to suggest EVE needs X population or Y demographic spread. CCP's own executives would have to pull a major change in how they deploy their assets regarding EVE. That means redesigning not only the core game, but the business model as well. That's no small feat and it's not going to happen at least any time soon. Even for a company like CCP who's not a giant like EA, it still takes time to make any complex move in policy and/or design.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#123 - 2013-06-05 05:21:28 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
stuff


I decided that I couldn't take this seriously after looking at your character name. I almost feel obligated to throw out a "**** or gtfo".


Not only the character name but the corp! My "serious or troll" compass is immeasurably confused on this one.

I want to believe! Smells like a troll!

Well played, M. Fappington.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2013-06-05 06:11:50 UTC
Korah Arnelle wrote:
I'm not trying to be mean about this, but it's just plain dumb to suggest EVE needs X population or Y demographic spread.


CoD and WoW say, "Hi".

They have the largest demographic spread in gaming, period.

If CCP got 1/10th of that pie they'd be in clover...but can't get there ignoring the obvious.

500k to 5mil is going to take more than graphics and even a new UI. The game has to appeal to 51% of the RL population.

That means some very uncomfortable decisions and changes. And if history proves itself again, those all boy clubs don't take change readily.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Diva Ex Machina
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-06-05 06:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Diva Ex Machina
Gealbhan wrote:
I've tried to get the wife interested in EvE, she has no interest what so ever. She prefers that other game & Farmville.

Edit: I asked her again and she said it's a - "cutthroat, male testosterone dominated game and it just seems full of griefing and hatred." - direct quote.

She elaborated some more but that's the cliff notes version.


I agree with your wife.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-06-05 06:43:20 UTC
I think after today, it is very clear why few women play EVE.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#127 - 2013-06-05 07:18:46 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
more women would not hurt in the game, it would temper the aggression and bring the community to a balance



Yes, all women are docile and calm, and all men are shouty and aggressive. FACT


if you want to say something, please try to do it without those subliminal denying of other opinions, you seem to have a hard-bitten way of doing this in all your statements, I know its not easy because then you stand alone with your thoughts and do not have backing of other trolls who act the same way, however you might growup and try anyway, thanks...
Eamon Tauros
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2013-06-05 07:31:13 UTC
Do women need EVE?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2013-06-05 07:32:26 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I think after today, it is very clear why few women play EVE.

Always putting a personal spin on things, aren't you?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-06-05 07:34:07 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

In WoW if a dude becomes creepy, it's a note to a GM. If the dude goes bonkers and creates a level 1 to harass, that note turns into a vacation from the game. He can pay $10 and change his nick, but the GM knows who he is and his penalty volcano follows him for the life of his account. He "disappears" if he values his time and money. And Blizzard has been really policing that stuff now, my realm's trade chat looks pretty much like some MUDs I played years ago. The buttwipes got their 48hr warnings, and the next will be a permanent chat ban. It's getting strict on that stuff now.

WoW wasn't always like that though. There were times when you'd complain about this sort of stuff, and see the guy going on in the same way the next day. About the only things that would cop a real punishment were overtly racist slurs. I expect that Blizzard has decided that cleaning up chat channels and removing the creeps will help with player retention, something that's been slipping for them over the past few years.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#131 - 2013-06-05 07:42:49 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Korah Arnelle wrote:
I'm not trying to be mean about this, but it's just plain dumb to suggest EVE needs X population or Y demographic spread.


CoD and WoW say, "Hi".

They have the largest demographic spread in gaming, period.

If CCP got 1/10th of that pie they'd be in clover...but can't get there ignoring the obvious.

500k to 5mil is going to take more than graphics and even a new UI. The game has to appeal to 51% of the RL population.

That means some very uncomfortable decisions and changes. And if history proves itself again, those all boy clubs don't take change readily.


Heh, WoW lost about 20% of it's subs in the last 6 months, and they just cancelled their lead project, Titan. They're hemorrhaging subscribers and their games have been one giant Diablo 3 debacle after another. LolPandas says hi. You really want EVE to be more like WoW? Ride the nerf/buff rollercoaster all year long? Losing at the character selection screen?

I detailed this earlier, but you can't get there trying to pander to people who play Angry Birds and Farmville either. In fact you can't hold onto your core base doing that either. 500k to 5 mil? Laughable. They're never going to get there. EVE is a niche game, that caters to a section of the gaming community that isn't served by other games. They have their demographic already.

Also, mentioning CoD, bad form. Which CoD? Black Ops, the one they've been trying to replace and is still eating about 20% of their server time any given weekend? Modern Warfare 3, which they have yet to get any sales that equal it? Or did you mean CoD (any expansion but the current one), the gaming genre where people pay Microsoft extra to get onto Xbox Live and be screamed obscenities at by pre-teen Asian kids with haxx? That CoD?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2013-06-05 07:43:20 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

Yeah, the changes to the game itself that get proposed fall into the "make a pink version" category. Even women who like pink can see the condescension dripping off the design.

In this case, the problem is (sub)cultural.


Even among women. Sure there will be women ace PvP pilots, but they know that is not the norm. Not because ladies can't do it, it's because they just don't want to fight like that. They're not into direct confrontation. And PvP is about that. It's something that appeals to men.

What EvE offers that can generally appeal to women, is little today. For example, I try to warm my sisters to try the game (and we all are sci-fi fans long before it was kewl). Mention the planets/nebulas/ships, crafting and the market being more intricate than WoW. *Spark*. But as soon as PvP is mentioned, they literally go back to do what they were doing in WoW. Not interested. Conversation dead.

They would only come over if EvE was PvE. Because if they do missioning and get podded, they'll simply leave and go back to WoW, which has all they like to do, plus has all those pets and mounts. It's a stereotype, but have a little cute pet as a reward, they're after it worse than James3:16 on a miner.

So the challenge is more than just gender appeal, it's trying to get women away from 1000001 cute pets and mounts in games like WoW to even pilot a ship. The latter is the hardest of all...as they'll continue to return back "home" for the latest pet and mount.

What would EvE offer to counter that -- which would fit into the EvE universe -- and not turn women away at the word: PvP?

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#133 - 2013-06-05 07:52:00 UTC
Quote:
Even among women. Sure there will be women ace PvP pilots, but they know that is not the norm. Not because ladies can't do it, it's because they just don't want to fight like that. They're not into direct confrontation. And PvP is about that. It's something that appeals to men.


EVE was designed and built at it's core, as a PVP game. This is very literally the appeal to much of this game's subscribers. EVE being a PVP game can't change, or it dies like Felucca and Tramel.
Quote:

What EvE offers that can generally appeal to women, is little today. For example, I try to warm my sisters to try the game (and we all are sci-fi fans long before it was kewl). Mention the planets/nebulas/ships, crafting and the market being more intricate than WoW. *Spark*. But as soon as PvP is mentioned, they literally go back to do what they were doing in WoW. Not interested. Conversation dead.

They would only come over if EvE was PvE. Because if they do missioning and get podded, they'll simply leave and go back to WoW, which has all they like to do, plus has all those pets and mounts. It's a stereotype, but have a little cute pet as a reward, they're after it worse than James3:16 on a miner.


And you want us to try to get *more* of that kind of person into this game? Are you insane? That is literally poison to so much of the players of EVE. You know what I keep as a pet in this game? A slaver hound. Dunno if that fits the bill though.

"They would only come over if EVE (and here is the key word) was PVE"? I would love for you to explain that in more detail. Because it sounds like you're saying EVE without PVP is the only way to appeal to FG's.

Quote:
So the challenge is more than just gender appeal, it's trying to get women away from 1000001 cute pets and mounts in games like WoW to even pilot a ship. The latter is the hardest of all...as they'll continue to return back "home" for the latest pet and mount.

What would EvE offer to counter that -- which would fit into the EvE universe -- and not turn women away at the word: PvP?


Why try to slice into WoW's playerbase to add to ours, is what I want to know. Given what I know of the WoW playerbase, we'd pretty much have "Everyone who played EVE before X" doing their level best to kill everyone else and drive them out of the game. So why?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#134 - 2013-06-05 08:01:37 UTC
Low number of women in this game is direct result of **** male players give them. CCP is unusually tolerant when it comes to harassment on chats, etc...

Yes i do understand blowing someone up just because you can, but i don't understand giving them hate just be cause their gender. That´s just racist.

I have personally witnessed such things in chat and it always makes me sad that CCP allows such things. Maybe things change once someone finally gets enough and sues CCP for allowing it.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#135 - 2013-06-05 08:01:48 UTC
This thread has just enough taster to show why there is a low female count in this game. That being said if everyone on their chat channels and voice channels maybe halved the amount of blue content they use and allowed females to dictate the conversation some of the time (they have to sit through your ****, you could at least have the courtesy of letting them air out theirs too from time to time) then you might see maybe that number double. I wouldn't really expect sex parity in this game - mostly down to genre, mechanics and history of the game but the number of females playing could be higher.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#136 - 2013-06-05 08:07:38 UTC
Quote:
i don't understand giving them hate just be cause their gender. That´s just racist.


Racist? Lolwut? Think that through again, and edit that, please.

Quote:
Maybe things change once someone finally gets enough and sues CCP for allowing it.


Please read your Terms of Service. CCP is entirely indemnified from any reaction you may have to another player. HTFU some, and you will find that not only does some of it actually disappear, but that you mind it a lot less.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2013-06-05 08:12:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Heh, WoW lost about 20% of it's subs in the last 6 months, and they just cancelled their lead project, Titan.


Heh, and CCP made a MMOFPS on the PS3 platform; grew about 250k accounts in 3 years; and had a launch that didn't even peak to 50k online players (well, we saw what the 250k increase came from.../wave at ice farming bots).

It was 14% and most from Asia. MoP wouldn't be a popular theme in Asia.

Titan probably was cancelled due to the reality of PC + console gameplay will be necessary in the next generation MMOs. The clues were in the March Activision-Blizzard stock report.

Now design an AAA MMO with a console in mind. Yeah, reset time. CCP isn't even touching that nightmare.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You really want EVE to be more like WoW?


Yes.

Most successful MMO in almost 10 years running. Do you know of any game franchise that can claim the same?

Don't you want better? Or are you happy with being in second place?

500k to 5mil isn't coming by being a dinosaur.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Seniae 0n3
#138 - 2013-06-05 08:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Seniae 0n3
There are more women playing Eve and other games than people think. Just as a man doesn't have to mention he's a male playing a game why should women have to mention they're female? "teamspeak verified female" <---- really???? does it matter?
Lord 'Vulcan' Raven
Vulcan Logistics
#139 - 2013-06-05 08:20:01 UTC
Why does anyone's gender matter in a video game?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2013-06-05 08:22:53 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Yes.

Most successful MMO in almost 10 years running. Do you know of any game franchise that can claim the same?

Don't you want better? Or are you happy with being in second place?

500k to 5mil isn't coming by being a dinosaur.

Are you trolling?
Not everything is about subscription numbers and big name recognition.
Sure it would be nice if EVE were more popular, but if you try to get there from here by sacrificing many of the core tenets of the game then you're going to lose what sets the EVE community apart from any other MMO, which are the many tens to hundreds of thousands of players who stay subscribed for many years because they love the game and know that its experience is unparalleled by any themepark MMO available today.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)