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[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

First post First post First post
Author
Charlie Jacobson
#21 - 2013-06-04 03:56:22 UTC
Other players in MMOs are genderless entities to me. It makes no difference one way or the other.
Pipernelli Spacemitt
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-06-04 04:19:38 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote:
Clearly we need affirmative action and subsidized PLEX for female players.

I'm sure there are many feminists who would be happy to litigate, err help, CCP over this.

considering Iceland's current political trend seems to be to prevent Gender inequality even at the cost of personal freedom, i wouldn't be surprised if the push came from up above instead of the sides.

even when i agree with the sentiment, i cant agree with the Means. maybe i just value personal freedoms too much. Pirate the weird thing is that Iceland is one of the top countries when it comes to women's access to education, business and political activity... so all i can say is that im puzzled by Icelandic politics. fixing stuff that's not broken is never a good idea.

but even if outside pressure was put on CCP, i cant think of a game that needs such intervention less than this one. eve hates everyone, regardless of where you are from, or your gender. and my guess is that it is because of that "harsh" nature that women are even more paranoid than usual about revealing personal details.

and no, neither eve needs affirmative action nor evil "feminists" will raid your village, so chill and please go make me a sandwich while you are at it. Bear


Pff... personal liberty?

That's so twentieth century. We're all about "fairness," and "social justice," now. Try to keep up.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-06-04 04:31:56 UTC
First step would be to create life-like avatars which actually look good rather than hide mediocre, low poly travesties behind huge armor, weapons and pets.


Oh wait... we already have it.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#24 - 2013-06-04 04:38:29 UTC
There really is not much CCP can do to draw more females to EVE.

Incarna would get more women interested in trying the game, but they would still be driven away because the real game is still outside of stations, or affects the life outside of stations (talking about diplomats and similar that simply do not have the time to undock anymore Smile ).

But as others have mentioned, some of the harassment that goes on towards female players from the male population is...aggravating to say it politely.
I have experienced everything from harassment, receiving nude pictures, ingame threats towards corp members, gotten the corp kicked out of alliances and so on just because i did not wish to cyber with someone.
Received real life death threats (ok only one of these), had the mandatory "OMG its a girl" comments on TS, had people rage quit the corp because "omg a female beat me in a frig fight!", been told i hold a higher position in the corp because of my better half (oddly enough i recruited him not the other way around Lol ), had people tell me that "a married woman is more of a challenge", and some that straight forward tell me that they dont care what i say even if im a director and they will only listen to a male director.

And from talking to other female players i know i have had an easy time!

But this is not just the males fault, its also the females fault. But i have already covered all that in another thread, so you can read it there if you want to.

But bottom line is..The female gamers that are serious and not just looking to abuse guys that go "Omg boobies! Let me give you all my stuff!" will in many cases be put off by the fact that its very hard to find a group that are willing to tolerate and respect having a female gamer around, especially in any form of leadership position.
Not to mention the fact that girls can be very..competitive (intentionally or not) so there is no group where your "safe" as a female gamer.
Go with a pure male corp and you will most likely run into the people that thinks that you really DO want to sleep with anyone who says "You sound cute" while giggling on TS, find a corp with a lot of girls and you will have trouble advancing higher up and you have to be paranoid about passive aggressiveness and "competition" between the female players (in some cases you wont even know your in a competition! Lol ).
Mastertz
Itagaki Heavy Industries
#25 - 2013-06-04 05:10:35 UTC
My head, it swims.

Can't even, wut.....
Garresh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-06-04 05:49:51 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
There really is not much CCP can do to draw more females to EVE.

Incarna would get more women interested in trying the game, but they would still be driven away because the real game is still outside of stations, or affects the life outside of stations (talking about diplomats and similar that simply do not have the time to undock anymore Smile ).

But as others have mentioned, some of the harassment that goes on towards female players from the male population is...aggravating to say it politely.
I have experienced everything from harassment, receiving nude pictures, ingame threats towards corp members, gotten the corp kicked out of alliances and so on just because i did not wish to cyber with someone.
Received real life death threats (ok only one of these), had the mandatory "OMG its a girl" comments on TS, had people rage quit the corp because "omg a female beat me in a frig fight!", been told i hold a higher position in the corp because of my better half (oddly enough i recruited him not the other way around Lol ), had people tell me that "a married woman is more of a challenge", and some that straight forward tell me that they dont care what i say even if im a director and they will only listen to a male director.

And from talking to other female players i know i have had an easy time!

But this is not just the males fault, its also the females fault. But i have already covered all that in another thread, so you can read it there if you want to.

But bottom line is..The female gamers that are serious and not just looking to abuse guys that go "Omg boobies! Let me give you all my stuff!" will in many cases be put off by the fact that its very hard to find a group that are willing to tolerate and respect having a female gamer around, especially in any form of leadership position.
Not to mention the fact that girls can be very..competitive (intentionally or not) so there is no group where your "safe" as a female gamer.
Go with a pure male corp and you will most likely run into the people that thinks that you really DO want to sleep with anyone who says "You sound cute" while giggling on TS, find a corp with a lot of girls and you will have trouble advancing higher up and you have to be paranoid about passive aggressiveness and "competition" between the female players (in some cases you wont even know your in a competition! Lol ).


You know...this game is worse in the sexism and chauvinism department than a lot of MMOs, but they aren't exempt either. When you look at the gaming community as a whole, it just paints a dismal picture. But I'd there's one thing about eve I love, which is a huge selling point to me, and should be to you too:

In eve, unlike other games, if someone really pisses you off or says some off color ****, you can hunt them down and cause some serious damage to them. I sometimes write down names on a list when I see someone acting like a douche, and prioritize them if I'm out suicide ganking or pvping. This doesn't fix the problem or come even close. But if you're stuck in a cesspool filled with douchebags, might as well make the best of it right?

This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#27 - 2013-06-04 06:40:35 UTC
Get a startion for E-RP, Girls love E-RP right?
Elder Ozzian
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-06-04 06:42:18 UTC
My wife spent about 2h with character creation tool and then wondered how she can make her own clothes because the clothes given by artists were dull. Next thing she asked; "How can I see other people?" - well, they are in space as we know... She never logged back on.

That's why we need WIS, so we can bring our wifes in game - not dragging us out from the game.

I disagree!

Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-06-04 06:42:38 UTC
For marketing purposes most MMOs do not distinguish between a 14 year old male and a 45 year old male and that is who they market to. I am not saying this is true of CCP. No idea. My own personal theory is that this means they are marketing to the presence testosterone.

Private sig. Do not read.

Yatolillaa
The Crown Estate Trading
#30 - 2013-06-04 07:18:57 UTC
balloon-ships piloted by pink teddybears that goes "whieee" when they throw nerfballs .. unicorn battleships that fart harmless rainbows .. and add option to make the captain quarters pink with justin bieber posters on the wall X

But seriously, females i think are more social .. if u unlock the station door, and make it possible for ppl to chat, trade and interact with eachother .. and a sawed off shotgun to deal with scammers. Big smile
Aldebaran Aubaris
Free-lances
#31 - 2013-06-04 07:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldebaran Aubaris
GreenSeed wrote:


*snip*


...i mean, over the years one thing remains a constant, women in video games don't like to be found. wanna know why? just make an alt say a few times you are a girl on the NPC corp chat, and eventually you'll get an evemail from a dude that wants to smell your farts...

*snip*

Blink


Winnar!
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-06-04 07:26:15 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Go with a pure male corp and you will most likely run into the people that thinks that you really DO want to sleep with anyone who says "You sound cute" while giggling on TS, find a corp with a lot of girls and you will have trouble advancing higher up and you have to be paranoid about passive aggressiveness and "competition" between the female players (in some cases you wont even know your in a competition! Lol ).


Actually, I prefer an all male corp, especially if they get around the fact I'm a woman. Less drama usually.

Women tend to like to gossip, and god, they can be utterly ruthless with the "competition". Woe to any guy in a leadership position with an ambitious officer in the wings. Black widow is putting it mildly.

Women can play EvE v-e-r-y well, they just play a different game of ruthlessness...and don't follow that male chivalry code, either. Bear

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#33 - 2013-06-04 07:36:56 UTC
My refuses to even try Eve cause its not WoW enough, IE Cartoony fantasy.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-06-04 07:47:24 UTC
I doubt it has anything to do with EVE being Sci-fi.

In fact, fans of stuff like Star Trek and Doctor Who (call it sci-fi with a big stretch on "sci-" part, it doesn't really matter) I know personally are mostly female. But the truth is, while they enjoy sci-fi part, this wouldn't happen if not for charming characters, for once. A whole bunch of "basement dwellers" talking exclusively meta in-game are not such types.

And honestly, I doubt that avatar interactions will change anything at all. WiS does affect people's first impression, but contributes nothing to willingness to stay. In fact, noone cares of such things in other MMOs and if they do it's only because your avatar is something you see 100% of your gaming time so it's better be easy on eyes.
J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#35 - 2013-06-04 07:52:07 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/03/96-percent-of-eve-online-players-are-male/
Quote:

CCP marketing bigwig David Reid recently told Destructoid that 96 percent of EVE Online players are male. The site also interviewed EVE senior producer Andie Nordgren, who opined that the numbers are a byproduct of genre.

"Part of it is due to the theme of the game. Science fiction is an extremely male-dominated domain," she explained. Whatever the reasons, CCP is OK with EVE's current demographics. "It's not a goal for us as a development team to specifically increase the number of female players," Nordgren said. It's "more an indicator than something [to] strive for."


Takeaways:
a) GiRL is GiRL. Think about that the next time you cyber.

b) How can we, a bunch of sci-fiction addicted hyper-aggressive males with spastic trigger fingers and/or mining/missioning Carebears who enjoy repeated repetition while dwelling in our parents' basement, help CCP to increase sub numbers by attracting female players to EVE?

I, for one, am at a loss. Especially after my wife laughed when I asked for suggestions.



EVE has women. At least I know a couple of them.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#36 - 2013-06-04 07:55:41 UTC
Clara Wade wrote:
Wife says to add ponies. (that was a joke)


My Little EVE: Spaceships are magic!

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia

J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#37 - 2013-06-04 07:56:19 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:

But as others have mentioned, some of the harassment that goes on towards female players from the male population is...aggravating to say it politely.
I have experienced everything from harassment, receiving nude pictures, ingame threats towards corp members, gotten the corp kicked out of alliances and so on just because i did not wish to cyber with someone.
Received real life death threats (ok only one of these), had the mandatory "OMG its a girl" comments on TS, had people rage quit the corp because "omg a female beat me in a frig fight!", been told i hold a higher position in the corp because of my better half (oddly enough i recruited him not the other way around Lol ), had people tell me that "a married woman is more of a challenge", and some that straight forward tell me that they dont care what i say even if im a director and they will only listen to a male director.


Damn, no cyber with NC Sad

And I don't listen to any director...mainly because I'm already busy listening to all those creepy voices in my headTwisted

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aldebaran Aubaris
Free-lances
#38 - 2013-06-04 07:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldebaran Aubaris
I've met several husband / wife teams that were fun to mine around. One in an orca and the other in a Hulk. Cool stuff and bonus to solo mining. Cool

Unfortunately, no Manage e' TwasPirate
kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-06-04 08:10:15 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
my personal, anecdotal evidence calls bullshit on that 4%.

also, what people often fail to consider is how the interaction changes between players, once one of them reveals to be a woman... on games like world of Warcraft the socially awkward and misogynistic trend to get violent for no apparent reason, often harassing or just plain making people uncomfortable. and we are talking wow here, one of the safest as far a theme parks go....

consider now eve. a game that rewards the socially inept, and often puts them in positions of "power", or at least in a position of having enough power to affect the gameplay of others. why would a women put herself in that fix? yeah, sure if there's harassment it can be reported, but the experience has been ruined by this point.

i mean, over the years one thing remains a constant, women in video games don't like to be found. wanna know why? just make an alt say a few times you are a girl on the NPC corp chat, and eventually you'll get an evemail from a dude that wants to smell your farts, a convo from some other creep that wants you to listen to his mic, and god knows how many added you to their watchlist just to get a weird crepo feeling when you log in.

like i said, my personal experience shows a way higher than 4% number. and no, there's nothing to change in the game to appeal to women. that in on itself is already sexist. Blink



This...when I started playing eve I made the rookie mistake of saying I was female in NPC chat. NPC chat is the worst...and I did have a couple of verrrryyyy weird guys sending me messages. For the most part, it's older players and vets who are totally unbothered by gender and never made a big thing about it - but I have had my share of creepy eve mails.

Learned the lesson though. I just don't ever say I'm female in chat anymore and only ever fleet up with friends.

And to be completely honest, I agree with the people saying it's irrelevant. I don't think it's necessary to make eve more attractive to any demographic. People who like internet spaceships will play internet spaceships.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-06-04 08:10:16 UTC
Xeraphi wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's not something that traditionally appeals to women, there's a stigma attached as well as the fact that there's not much character customisation after the creation screen.

if you want more women to play this game, you need avatar interaction within stations and vanity items for them.

Sad but true :(


No we don't need any of that stuff.

What we do need is CCP not pandering exclusively to males while shutting out the possibility that females may like to play the game for the game.

What we do not need are a bunch of idiots and morons in chatrooms telling us that we should just ask for isk from guys *instead* of playing the GAME.

What we do not need is to be made to feel unwelcome and unimportant as science fiction fans for being born with certain equipment.

Drop it already the joke is really, really old.

Nice troll though, grats.

This seems a little unfair to CCP IMHO. CCP didn't design this game to cater for anyone in particular, they just designed a game they liked. It was then mostly males who chose to play it.

What I would agree with is that there are unfortunately way too many sexist morons in Eve and other MMOs who are bang out of order with the way they treat female gamers. I think anonymity and socially ill adjusted men are a bad combination and give the rest of us a bad name.

On the flip side, I would point out that it is very difficult to integrate a female into a male only corp and not always for the reasons you might think. The truth is that, online or in RL, a group of guys interact and socially bond through the medium of mutual insults, vulgarity and generally ripping on each other. I've had my sexuality questioned (several times What? ), my intellect ridiculed, my accent made fun of for being too posh, my in game abilities trashed and a multitude of other things in the many corps I've been in and I am very happy when it starts because it means the corp have accepted me and feel relaxed enough to bring me in.

Now, I'm sorry ladies, but a lot of women don't seem to react to male banter in the same way as guys do and so any attempt to treat them "as just one of the guys" is met with frosty silence and/or anger and that's not just limited to Eve by the way. Also, I'm not talking about sexist comments, but any other sort of joking insult is taken personally.

Perhaps it's a social thing but men don't take themselves anywhere near as seriously as women do which is why a group of males behave in a totally different way to a group of females. It might also explain why there are so few female comedians...