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[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

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NosEspEYE
swordFightingaFart
#201 - 2013-06-06 01:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NosEspEYE
The tropes and sexism are strong in this thread-EVE needs more feminists and white knights like a fish needs a bicycle.

no, EVE needs more players that want to have fun (men and women), not ones that figure out gender quotas or give a **** if the voice on the other end is sweet or a mangina.

Just Encourage people to play the game, let them choose...want more women to play? ask more women to be involved in the game's idea's for the future but please...please don't come up with sexist bullshit about how "men" are what keeps women from playing. Women can be just as much sexist bullies as any men can be and blaming 'men' for some gender imbalance is not an answer or a solution. Some men are jerks, some women are jerks....call them out dont paint the whole community with a brush.

Go do something fun now......go fly your genderless space ships and pew pew~
Ariel Dawn
Daerie Inc.
Toilet Paper.
#202 - 2013-06-06 01:53:16 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Ariel Dawn wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
YOu want more ladies in this game, then you men need to act more like men, and not teens.

"**** or GTFO" and" GIRL=Guy In Real Life" is off-putting.

I'd rather gender not even be an issue in EVE, but...it is.


Gender isn't an issue 99/100 times, it's pretty much almost always trolling or ribbing or etc. Guys spend plenty of time making fun of each other and questioning each others sexuality and being a woman is just something that gives them material for messing around with you, they're not actually out to get you. But these types of articles definitely write themselves, they're pretty much always the same.

When I hear get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich, my response is get in the garage and build me a spice rack first. Call them fat and insinuate that they live in their mother's basement and there you go.


Well said, but while many of us guys are just being dicks because that's how we communicate, there are some dudes who say that **** and mean it offensively. Obviously its gotta be judged on a case by case basis.

Honestly, as dumb as it sounds, I've never met a girl in eve in the 4 years I've been playing, but that's cause Ive flown solo for like 95% of that time, and spent the rest either with the Ninjas or in pub small gang PvP, which is notorious for being full of retards. Point is 4% sounds pretty accurate.

One more dumb point: the worst thing about the sexism seems, to me at least, to be the stereotyping. I'm gonna cite a different game, but I play dota with a bunch irl friends. One is a girl who plays a sick nasty mid and support. The instant she goes on voice chat she gets harassed.

And if she's playing duo with one of our little clan, people see the tags and instantly assume she's my girlfriend, or whoever else's girlfriend. Then they assume she's bad and only decent because we taught her. I see this **** in literally every game I play online. Girls are assumed to be someone's girlfriend and only decent because a MAN taught her. I feel like that **** is worse than the harassment because it effectively dehumanizes and negates any achievements of a competent player. But this problem is widespread. Its not just limited to eve, and its not going to be solved within eve unless people straight up call these ******* out on it and make them suffer.

Tldr; gank and harass any sexist ****** you meet.


Heh, that's not really a video game thing that you're describing; I've had a few clients at the company I'm at assume I was some ditzy secretary at initial meetings instead of the person managing their file before because it's unusual to see women in the field I'm in. You just can't let it get to you because there's tons of tiny little things here and there that are pretty different, and quite a large number of them are pretty damn great too, I don't think I've spent more than $100 total in bars/clubs for drinks since I turned 18 (Canadian here!) and I'm mid 20s now.

EVE is one of the more mature communities that I've seen in games, I also play DotA 2 and while being thick skinned I've heard people completely flip out to the point of incoherent screaming if they get called on their BS, and I've experienced similar stuff that you've written about. It's just uninspired trolling that children/terrible people run on with. And this may paint me as odd, I actually prefer to deal with trolls than white knights, as the former as readily apparent and easy to ignore/fix, while the latter quite often are creeps. If a woman can't deal with her own **** and you're "white knighting" her, chances are you're being strung along.

EVE needs more involved customization, as well as social/group activities that reward for short periods of play. It doesn't need to be ISK rewards; there's plenty of different avenues that could be implemented (unlocking new avatar stuff, story discovery, more mini-games like hacking, etc.)
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-06-06 01:53:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I'd say it's hard to estimate, myself. THere are some out there who consider the mere mention of "I'm a woman" to be "Grrl gamer taking advantage lol drama!".


I'm not in that category, but the first time someone tells me to tone down my language (I am quite profane in game), the knives come out. That kind of crap doesn't fly with me, certainly not with corpmates. This a game for adults.


Today's adults? The same "adults" who never learned manners or etiquette?

In my day adults didn't cuss in mixed company. That was more than rude, that was uncouth. That was what trailer trash did.

Gentlemen did not cuss nor talk trash nor even politics among the ladies in my days. Gentlemen also were properly introduced to the ladies, otherwise they wouldn't talk with them.

So be careful about definitions about what is and isn't adult, even among adults. It depends when and where you were born and raised. Where I lived, upto the 70s, children were still taught to bow and curtsey. And you could tell who were trailer trash or not by how they addressed adults, "sir" or "ma'am".

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#204 - 2013-06-06 02:11:06 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I'd say it's hard to estimate, myself. THere are some out there who consider the mere mention of "I'm a woman" to be "Grrl gamer taking advantage lol drama!".


I'm not in that category, but the first time someone tells me to tone down my language (I am quite profane in game), the knives come out. That kind of crap doesn't fly with me, certainly not with corpmates. This a game for adults.


Today's adults? The same "adults" who never learned manners or etiquette?

In my day adults didn't cuss in mixed company. That was more than rude, that was uncouth. That was what trailer trash did.

Gentlemen did not cuss nor talk trash nor even politics among the ladies in my days. Gentlemen also were properly introduced to the ladies, otherwise they wouldn't talk with them.

So be careful about definitions about what is and isn't adult, even among adults. It depends when and where you were born and raised. Where I lived, upto the 70s, children were still taught to bow and curtsey. And you could tell who were trailer trash or not by how they addressed adults, "sir" or "ma'am".


In your day? This coming from the "change is good" feminist arguer?

It's not your day. Yes, I feel comfortable swearing in front of a female. That's equality for you.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. There are no "gentlemen" anymore, that's been pretty well beaten out of American society. I certainly am not a gentleman, and I will define how I please.

"We want equal treatment, and to be seen as no different!" "Oh, but can the deferential attitude stay?" Hell no.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lady Areola Fappington
#205 - 2013-06-06 02:21:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In your day? This coming from the "change is good" feminist arguer?

It's not your day. Yes, I feel comfortable swearing in front of a female. That's equality for you.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. There are no "gentlemen" anymore, that's been pretty well beaten out of American society. I certainly am not a gentleman, and I will define how I please.

"We want equal treatment, and to be seen as no different!" "Oh, but can the deferential attitude stay?" Hell no.


Hell, I don't care if you cuss in front of me. I'll give as good as I gets in that department.

On the flipside, if you can't handle someone saying "Hey, can you lay off the get in the kitchen jokes please?", then you have some growing-up that needs done.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#206 - 2013-06-06 02:31:18 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In your day? This coming from the "change is good" feminist arguer?

It's not your day. Yes, I feel comfortable swearing in front of a female. That's equality for you.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. There are no "gentlemen" anymore, that's been pretty well beaten out of American society. I certainly am not a gentleman, and I will define how I please.

"We want equal treatment, and to be seen as no different!" "Oh, but can the deferential attitude stay?" Hell no.


Hell, I don't care if you cuss in front of me. I'll give as good as I gets in that department.

On the flipside, if you can't handle someone saying "Hey, can you lay off the get in the kitchen jokes please?", then you have some growing-up that needs done.


Nailed it. That applies to pretty much everything. "Hey, shut up and web the guy already!" "Ok, ok, enough carebear jokes, do you want in on this Incursion fleet or not?"

HTFU. Everybody.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Cephalus
Epic Logistic
#207 - 2013-06-06 02:57:59 UTC
the eve community is one of the most man chauvinistic gaming communities on the net.

i have had allot of female friends who tried the game and liked it, so nothing wrong whit the game.
but they all got turned off pretty quick by all the douche bags.
Cat Murdoch
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-06-06 03:20:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
As for the banning. I still defend this. We had our core raiding group (and we were trying for server first, so this was quite painful) literally destroyed by a female who had been in guild for about 2 weeks. I won't get into the specifics, but after that if I teamspeak interviewed a girl, I just said they weren't what we were looking for.

And there's the sad, frustrating side of sexism. If a male player causes trouble, it's just him that's bad news. If a female player causes trouble, it's *all* women are bad news. Roll

Just look at the comments re "grrl gamers". We know that the majority of female characters in Eve are actually played by male players. And Mr Epeen pointed out that male players have been known to use the "I'm a girl, help me out" tactic to scam and game other characters. But everyone is still talking about these characters as if they're all played by women, and how it reflects badly on other female players. We've even got some debating if there are more female players who use that style of play compared to female players who play straight.

Sheesh.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#209 - 2013-06-06 03:32:14 UTC
Cat Murdoch wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
As for the banning. I still defend this. We had our core raiding group (and we were trying for server first, so this was quite painful) literally destroyed by a female who had been in guild for about 2 weeks. I won't get into the specifics, but after that if I teamspeak interviewed a girl, I just said they weren't what we were looking for.

And there's the sad, frustrating side of sexism. If a male player causes trouble, it's just him that's bad news. If a female player causes trouble, it's *all* women are bad news. Roll

Just look at the comments re "grrl gamers". We know that the majority of female characters in Eve are actually played by male players. And Mr Epeen pointed out that male players have been known to use the "I'm a girl, help me out" tactic to scam and game other characters. But everyone is still talking about these characters as if they're all played by women, and how it reflects badly on other female players. We've even got some debating if there are more female players who use that style of play compared to female players who play straight.

Sheesh.


Ok, let's go there then. This went to evemail actually between me and Lady Areola, but let me go ahead and paraphrase it.

I suppose ban was the wrong word. It wasn't ever anything written down, but it just turned out the way that, we didn't end up increasing our numbers of females in our guild. It was about attitude, nothing else. Myself and the other officers more or less took it upon ourselves to preemptively weed out people who would cause drama. As it turned out, that meant we weeded out all of the successive females who applied to our guild. And about ten times as many males.

Get this. If we're on teamspeak and you try to flutter your e-lashes at me to get into the guild, you've already lost.

So, then, are you telling me that if literally 4 months of your hard work, between getting your guild recruiting up pre patch, farming mats and trying your absolute damn hardest to blaze through progression, only to have it ruined by little miss "Look I haz ****!", you wouldn't make some changes to your organization?

Also, when it comes "if it's a man, it's just them causing trouble", nothing could be further from the truth. They got kicked the same as the female in question, even though it cost me my core offtank. I also banned Ret paladins from the guild, because at the time if you mained one, you were likely terribad. What does that say about me?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Xeraphi
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2013-06-06 03:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeraphi
Zane Lowe wrote:
The real question is, why do we need to attract women? Let eve evolve in the way that is best for the game, and let it attract who it attracts. The fact that a video game doesn't appeal to a certain segment of the population isn't an issue, just a fact.


We don't need to attract women to the game we need to stop driving them (us) away from it.

I tried to join a different incursion group and the FC wasn't comfortable with me bringing my battlecruiser even though I've run very successfully with a couple of different groups now. Some idiot on their ts3 goes "but she's a girl" and I just left the channel. Why? After that, even though it wasn't even me bringing up my gender, the FC would have lost face if he'd included me. So now I'll never run with TVP even once I get battleship and large guns trained up. The communities I run with, I got hassled and told I should just get guys to give me isk instead of playing the game, but the FCs dealt with that. Because they let me in while I'm training and handled the sexist talk appropriately, I'll run with them when I'm even more experienced and can contribute more. Simple. (Well, once CCP fixes the graphics problem that has me unable to play at all right now.)

Ace Uoweme wrote:
They would have to kill WoW to make another MMO or integrated WoW into Titan (cloning or character transfers), or it'll suffer what RIFT and SWTOR faced.


RIFT failed from inexperience and lack of vision, mostly due to only having two factions in pvp and catering to the elitists by changing the game mechanics every month, then failing in a last-ditch effort to retain the casuals which drove away the semi-casuals. SWTOR failed from a combination of arrogance, paranoia which vilified the very people who loved the game enough to TELL THEM the Emperor had no clothes, and trying to shoehorn KOTOR3 into a half-assed online format that was in no way an MMO. They were so confident they'd be hired to do KOTOR3 they were thrown for a loop when they were told to do an MMO instead, and the stupidly re-used assets to "save" on the development cycle instead of evaluating from scratch what would be needed. Big companies make big, costly mistakes. I still think Lucasarts needed a loss for a tax sink or something though since they were given plenty of feedback - but oh wait, everyone who said something negative in criticism WANTED THE GAME TO FAIL! *facepalm*

Again, only two factions in pvp really sucks for the players, especially when the devs are handing out actual power imbalances to one side... in RIFT the dwarves had a huge advantage in pvp due to their tiny size and in SWTOR the devs handed out actual extra power to the Dark Side even in the design of the warzones.

*********

Women don't need eve dumbed down, or with pets added. There are plenty of female science fiction fans and even writers. There are plenty of women who love seeing ships explode. There are plenty of women who love to pvp. It's about the attitude.

Customizable paint colours for ships would be a nice plus though.

New target lock death animation problem #1 ^ eye strain and pain Temporary workaround found to one of these.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-06-06 03:39:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In your day? This coming from the "change is good" feminist arguer?


Who's labeling who a feminist? Got a problem with the ladies?

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It's not your day. Yes, I feel comfortable swearing in front of a female. That's equality for you.


It is my day still. I don't associate with trailer trash. Smile

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2013-06-06 03:42:59 UTC
Xeraphi wrote:
We don't need to attract women to the game we need to stop driving them (us) away from it.

That's like saying "we need to eradicate racism". Pretty noble goal, but meaningless platitudes aren't going to do it. The real perpetrators, the ones you're really hoping to address, will never see this thread. Nor will they ever be interested in having an intellectual discussion. You just can't use logic to defeat someone who's so willfully ignorant of it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#213 - 2013-06-06 03:47:10 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In your day? This coming from the "change is good" feminist arguer?


Who's labeling who a feminist? Got a problem with the ladies?

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It's not your day. Yes, I feel comfortable swearing in front of a female. That's equality for you.


It is my day still. I don't associate with trailer trash. Smile


I'm labeling you a feminist. Because you speak like one, and you make references to 60s-70s feminist terminology. If the shoe fits, after all.

And I am curious as to what you are referring? I have no issues with "the ladies", whoever they might be. So please, do continue.

It's your day? And... I'm the dinosaur for saying that I like the game the way it is... but it's your day, but I need to get with the times, but 70s era speaking conventions, but...

Yeah, eff it, I am guessing you aren't getting it yet. You've contradicted yourself almost completely. You've tripped over your own statements like my kid tripping on the shoelaces she doesn't know how to tie. I take it they never taught dialectian discourse in the 70s?

Trailer trash? Aww, my feelings are hurt. Wait, no they're not. It's kind of funny that you're the one calling names at this point though. Particularly since you took such exception to the way I claimed I choose to speak to my corpies in game, yet of the two of us, I have maintained the far higher level of discourse on the forums.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#214 - 2013-06-06 03:48:43 UTC
Cat Murdoch wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
As for the banning. I still defend this. We had our core raiding group (and we were trying for server first, so this was quite painful) literally destroyed by a female who had been in guild for about 2 weeks. I won't get into the specifics, but after that if I teamspeak interviewed a girl, I just said they weren't what we were looking for.

And there's the sad, frustrating side of sexism. If a male player causes trouble, it's just him that's bad news. If a female player causes trouble, it's *all* women are bad news. Roll

Just look at the comments re "grrl gamers". We know that the majority of female characters in Eve are actually played by male players. And Mr Epeen pointed out that male players have been known to use the "I'm a girl, help me out" tactic to scam and game other characters. But everyone is still talking about these characters as if they're all played by women, and how it reflects badly on other female players. We've even got some debating if there are more female players who use that style of play compared to female players who play straight.

Sheesh.


It works two ways. As a guy, we know that we have a chance in a debate against other guys. But in any kind of altercation with a woman, we are naturally penalized. We (guys) are even raised to treat it this way. Don't hit a girl.

If it comes down to you and the authorities (the law, the legal system, the school system, the company HR department, the game managers), the female is 'expected' to receive the advantage. No authority system is willing to side against a woman without overwhelming, overshadowing evidence of guilt. The repercussions, politically, are simply too strong.

Disagree? Try to get custody of your child from a grossly negligent mother in the US legal systems. Unless you've got enough evidence to put her in jail (and even then, some still side with the mother for 'maternal matters'), your fighting against the 'natural order'. Even the lawyer will tell you that, AFTER you pay him and he loses the case for you.

As a guy, it's simply easier to avoid any situation that would put us in such an unfair advantage, whether that advantage is perceived or actual. Does this mean we blame women? Not usually, I suspect. It just means we're smart enough to recognize the potential danger and avoid it at all cost. The risk is far too great.



Sad that this even happens in video games. I'm all for having more women playing. But just like the new females working in combat zones in my beloved Corps, it's not that they aren't capable of handling the job that gets my hackles up. It's the potential abuse of their derived power from being the 'fairer sex' that makes me glad I got out when I could.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Xeraphi
Perkone
Caldari State
#215 - 2013-06-06 03:54:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xeraphi wrote:
We don't need to attract women to the game we need to stop driving them (us) away from it.

That's like saying "we need to eradicate racism". Pretty noble goal, but meaningless platitudes aren't going to do it. The real perpetrators, the ones you're really hoping to address, will never see this thread. Nor will they ever be interested in having an intellectual discussion. You just can't use logic to defeat someone who's so willfully ignorant of it.


No but I was surprised to find out in a mission that when my character was assumed to be competent, the pirates spoke of her as a "he" and in the tutorial missions when the pirate was assuming my character to be a noob, the pirate spoke of her as a "sissy girl." I remember wondering how he knew my character's gender over comms then thinking maybe the pirates could see our portraits. It wasn't until much later I realized it was because he was trying to insult a GUY by calling the capsuleer a girl.

It's in the design of eve. You boys pick up on the way these things get written in, then a girl comes on comms and is harrassed more because you unconsciously were given that attitude about women just by playing the game. You say "oh we need to make the avatars prettier and have more fashion styles and pets if we want women and that would ruin eve!"

Plus, we do need to eradicate racism. The real perpetrators of any kind of bigotry, are taught that attitude by the world around them. If you don't speak up when you see it, it won't change. So yes, we need to stop driving women away who just want to play the game. Please.

New target lock death animation problem #1 ^ eye strain and pain Temporary workaround found to one of these.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#216 - 2013-06-06 03:57:42 UTC
Xeraphi wrote:
RIFT failed from inexperience and lack of vision, mostly due to only having two factions in pvp and catering to the elitists by changing the game mechanics every month, then failing in a last-ditch effort to retain the casuals which drove away the semi-casuals.


What drove me away was this: why play WoW 2, when I already play WoW?

Add that I bought 4 RIFT games for sis and I, and could only activate 2, yeah I wasn't going to stay around $100 less richer.

Then they allowed macros...

I play EvE for it's space theme. For it's crafting and trade options. It's not in WoW and to this extent. It's different and beautiful. And no macros.

Now somehow to get the bot problem out...

Xeraphi wrote:
Again, only two factions in pvp really sucks for the players, especially when the devs are handing out actual power imbalances to one side... in RIFT the dwarves had a huge advantage in pvp due to their tiny size and in SWTOR the devs handed out actual extra power to the Dark Side even in the design of the warzones.


Or in WoW and allow this official sanctioned stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf-lbVTt__I

Which caused a riot in WoW, as it was at Blizzcon and Blizzard even tried to excuse it. Missing completely how Alliance feels about the point-blank Horde favoritism.

So yeah, either 2 + 1 neutral factions (like EQII has) or 3 warring factions, and devs keep your favoritism to yourself. Evil

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Xeraphi
Perkone
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-06-06 03:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeraphi
Ruze wrote:
It works two ways. As a guy, we know that we have a chance in a debate against other guys. But in any kind of altercation with a woman, we are naturally penalized. We (guys) are even raised to treat it this way. Don't hit a girl.


I got hit plenty by boys when I was a kid and whenever I tried to defend myself it was all "it's not nice to hit people! and "be a lady!" lol

Just defending myself against multiple male attackers I got sent to the principal's office and written up as a troublemaker, and nothing was done about the boys attacking me.

Double standards suck.

New target lock death animation problem #1 ^ eye strain and pain Temporary workaround found to one of these.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#218 - 2013-06-06 04:03:08 UTC
Xeraphi wrote:
No but I was surprised to find out in a mission that when my character was assumed to be competent, the pirates spoke of her as a "he" and in the tutorial missions when the pirate was assuming my character to be a noob, the pirate spoke of her as a "sissy girl." I remember wondering how he knew my character's gender over comms then thinking maybe the pirates could see our portraits. It wasn't until much later I realized it was because he was trying to insult a GUY by calling the capsuleer a girl.

It's in the design of eve. You boys pick up on the way these things get written in, then a girl comes on comms and is harrassed more because you unconsciously were given that attitude about women just by playing the game. You say "oh we need to make the avatars prettier and have more fashion styles and pets if we want women and that would ruin eve!"

Plus, we do need to eradicate racism. The real perpetrators of any kind of bigotry, are taught that attitude by the world around them. If you don't speak up when you see it, it won't change. So yes, we need to stop driving women away who just want to play the game. Please.



So we're blaming the (possibly long gone) designers of the tutorial quests now...

Did you read what you put down at all? You know, to make sure you weren't saying anything insane? You should have.

You just stereotyped all men who play this game, btw. Moreso than anyone in this thread has done to women. You didn't even imply, you outright stated that men aren't capable of knowing the difference between NPC banter and real people, and that men are apparently stupid enough for the 5 total lines of dialogue in which this is mentioned to effect our entire outlook on gender relations.

The only bigot here is you.

Oh, and this lunacy.

Quote:
The real perpetrators of any kind of bigotry, are taught that attitude by the world around them


So, idealism over reality, is that right? Sorry, but reality will come back to slap you in the face, every time. That's what reality does.

You don't change people's minds by telling them how bad they are for something. Then, basic human psychology pops up and they say "Oh well", and then you are marked as an enemy.

Quote:
we need to stop driving women away who just want to play the game. Please.


I don't do that. I drive away anyone who wants to come into EVE and play the "tee hee" game instead. Because I don't play that game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#219 - 2013-06-06 04:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xeraphi wrote:
We don't need to attract women to the game we need to stop driving them (us) away from it.

That's like saying "we need to eradicate racism". Pretty noble goal, but meaningless platitudes aren't going to do it. The real perpetrators, the ones you're really hoping to address, will never see this thread. Nor will they ever be interested in having an intellectual discussion. You just can't use logic to defeat someone who's so willfully ignorant of it.


The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Edit: since we are bandying about terms such as "wilful ignorance" the meaning behind my statement is simply that if we don't start trying to eradicate racism and sexism, we will never finish eradicating racism and sexism. As always, the starting place for social change is the individual wishing for the change to happen.
Xeraphi
Perkone
Caldari State
#220 - 2013-06-06 04:06:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I don't do that. I drive away anyone who wants to come into EVE and play the "tee hee" game instead. Because I don't play that game.


Obviously women are only here to play the "tee hee" game right?

New target lock death animation problem #1 ^ eye strain and pain Temporary workaround found to one of these.