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Dev Blog: Odyssey Ship Balancing

First post
Author
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#21 - 2013-06-03 18:28:31 UTC
As I'm still primarily using Amarr hulls, I'm not too upset by these changes. (It may have something to do with the fact that EVE survived a near-death experience yesterday and as she just came out of a coma, I can't bring myself to anger - either that or it's because these changes will be implemented in mere minutes so there isn't much point in getting too excited...) For what it's worth,

My first impressions:

1.) Writing that the IN Slicer may have received a "tweak" to its fitting really isn't informative enough to draw any conclusions.

2.) The Amarr navy cruisers are getting badass bonuses. What's not to like?

3.) When I read about the changes to the Armageddon, and saw the words: "drone ship," my heart skipped a beat. Oh man, again? But my poor heart was shocked back into rhythm by the preceeding four words "more devious energy neutralizing." It's no secret that I'm not a fan of the Amarr people being turned into a drone race. They've always been best known for armor tanking and energy weapons imo. But at least when you pair drones with an energy weapon bonus (like neuts - I've always considered neuts energy weapons, they just do it in reverse) you bring an affordable, poor-man's Bhaalgorn to the party. And then at least there's a consistent theme between the Pilgrim, Dragoon, Armageddon, and the Bhaalgorn of these Amarr drone ships with energy sucking bonuses. This pve race is getting its pvp teeth one ship at a time. Hell, I say we're past the tipping point now. Just go for it and give the Punisher a neut bonus too. We'll have a whole pvp neut set then. In the end, it's difficult to be upset about a Neutageddon. I've used Neutageddon fits on the old Armageddons in pvp and they work well. They tend to surprise people. With the bonuses, they should work wonders.

(The Prophecy still sticks out like a red-headed stepchild though - I swear I'll never get over turning the eagle of the fleet into a drone carrier. I'm still wounded.)

4.) I was about to have an all-out stroke and fall out of my chair when I read that the Apoc's cap bonuses are being removed. The best thing about an Apoc is that you can fit a full set of T2s or Tachyons and do major dps with them. It still requires cap boosters of course (there's no such thing as cap stable in the Amarr empire! cap stability is for noobs!) but it performed well "because" of that cap bonus. (Same thing with the Navy Harb - no cap bonus, tracking instead.) But then I saw that fitting large energy turrets is being made orders of magnitude easier with requirements of TWENTY PERCENT less capacitor and TEN PERCENT less powergrid. And since this single change alone is like Christmas and my birthday all rolled into one, it's virtually impossible to be upset about anything else. How many Amarr ships have I fit with capacitor rigs and powergrid rigs, and powergrid modules and powergrid implants because the large energy turrets were so hungry they had to have it? How many times have I wished I could fit something like a rate of fire rig or an armor mod in the low slot that powergrid mod is occupying? As I've always had at least one Amarr character over the past five years: Too. Many. To. Count.

For that one reason alone, I'm thrilled. I can't wait to see how it affects all the fittings on all my ships and what alterations will be made possible because of it.

I can't believe I'm writing this but I'm actually looking forward to these ship changes.

Wow, huh?

YK

Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#22 - 2013-06-03 18:28:46 UTC
Excellent stuff, just waiting on Medium Rails to get a bit of love, now... Blink
Callic Veratar
#23 - 2013-06-03 18:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
CCP Fozzie, can you explain this contradiction please?

CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'll start with this disclaimer, we will never feel that we need to make hull designs match the function of every ship. So there's no NEED to switch the hulls on any command ships. This is not something we've decided to do, but it is something we could do and would like your opinions on.
Quote:
Choosing between which hull to pick between the Brutix or Myrmidon proved to be tricky for Odyssey – we finally picked the former as we foresaw some heavy role overlap for a possible Myrmidon Navy Issue with the Ishtar, Vexor Navy Issue, Gila or even Dominix. As a result, the Brutix Navy Issue is a ship that directly iterates on the strengths of its predecessor, with improved low slot layout and better damage application.

I still think we could have gotten a blaster Navy Myrmidon.


It's literally a modified Brutix. We're not going to confuse people for a new hull by making a navy Brutix in function look like a Myrm when we have the easy option of just using the Brutix hull.


How does that follow for the navy variants of the Armageddon, Augoror, Exequror, Osprey, Scorpion, and Scythe? None of them are variations on the T1 ships.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-06-03 18:42:53 UTC
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#25 - 2013-06-03 18:56:29 UTC
Awesome changes for the ships.

Any eta on when the changes for the pirate ships are coming though?

Lets hope you CCP doesn't mess up the Vindicator now, because i'm a very happy user of it.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Luc Chastot
#26 - 2013-06-03 18:58:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
CCP Fozzie, can you explain this contradiction please?

CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'll start with this disclaimer, we will never feel that we need to make hull designs match the function of every ship. So there's no NEED to switch the hulls on any command ships. This is not something we've decided to do, but it is something we could do and would like your opinions on.
Quote:
Choosing between which hull to pick between the Brutix or Myrmidon proved to be tricky for Odyssey – we finally picked the former as we foresaw some heavy role overlap for a possible Myrmidon Navy Issue with the Ishtar, Vexor Navy Issue, Gila or even Dominix. As a result, the Brutix Navy Issue is a ship that directly iterates on the strengths of its predecessor, with improved low slot layout and better damage application.

I still think we could have gotten a blaster Navy Myrmidon.


It's literally a modified Brutix. We're not going to confuse people for a new hull by making a navy Brutix in function look like a Myrm when we have the easy option of just using the Brutix hull.

You could have removed the armor reper bonus on the T1 Brutix and made a blaster Navy Myrm focused on survivability; or you could have done something else. It is a modified Brutix because you decided that's what a navy Gallente battlecruiser should be. Also, your argument contradicts what you already said about not needing to match hull design and function; but don't get me wrong, Fozzie, I really like most of the work you've done rebalancing ships. I just want to see a convincing argument for this decision, because otherwise I'll keep feeling Gallente pilots are consistently getting the short end of the stick.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Infinion
Awesome Corp
#27 - 2013-06-03 18:58:28 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


That's a good point, if the Domi's success is going to be centered around fighting exclusively with the sentries, then having any mobility with a fleet is going to mean abandoning a LOT of drones.

Should the domi really be abandoning drones to compete with the mobility of other combat battleships?

The domi should at least have a role bonus that increases sentry velocity up from 1 m/s, at least when being recalled to the dronebay.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#28 - 2013-06-03 19:09:08 UTC
Infinion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


That's a good point, if the Domi's success is going to be centered around fighting exclusively with the sentries, then having any mobility with a fleet is going to mean abandoning a LOT of drones.

Should the domi really be abandoning drones to compete with the mobility of other combat battleships?

The domi should at least have a role bonus that increases sentry velocity up from 1 m/s, at least when being recalled to the dronebay.


I feel like that is really shoehorning a bonus to make up for shoving the Domi into a ridiculously tiny niche role. Sentries should recall directly to dronebay anyway (with no way of cancelling the recall as a counter to just dragging them behind an Ishtar and having them move, snipe, move, snipe, move, snipe).

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-06-03 19:14:23 UTC
Combat ship changes seem to be getting all the coverage, (not that all the info is a bad thing) what has been lacking from the point of the initial ship change blog is what is happening with the non-combat ships, particularly the basic industrials. The origional blog stated that you would only need Gallante Industrial 1 as opposed to the current V that is needed now. Is this still going to happen, and have role changes been set up so that Itty's 1-4 do not become worthless hulls?
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
#30 - 2013-06-03 19:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Popsikle
Tech2 Cruisers need some love. Most of the HAC's are no longer the bad-assed machines they were, and I feel the recon classes need some love too, as they are a bit too slow to be useful in a lot of situations ;(

I know you said you will get to it, but is this something you will be getting to before the next exp or over the summer in small patches?

Also, please make the domi bonus to sentries being able to move while not attacking, pleaaaasssseee.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2013-06-03 19:48:44 UTC
Could you add warfare link effectiveness cut by 50% somewhere in there?

I wouldn't mind if the font would be small.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#32 - 2013-06-03 20:07:53 UTC
Quote:
Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills are being split in four racial versions and being reimbursed


Luckily I tried this on Sisi and they are not reimbursed actually. Reimbursed implies that you get something back, which is untrue as the destroyer and battlecruiser skills will be transferred into their racial counterparts.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#33 - 2013-06-03 20:12:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
That's 107 ships either added or comprehensively rebalanced in the last year.

Let's see if we can beat that next year.


WARNING - Lots o' love in this post.


Seriously - not to downplay what the other awesome devs at CCP do, but how does CCP Fozzie get all this Awwwwesome?

I mean - this guy is an animal. Talk about owning it and dominating.

The likes are strong with this one. ;)


Great work Fozzie, Rise, et al

Thanks for helping me and many others get much more excited about EVE. The spark is almost back! ;)
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-03 20:15:29 UTC
Infinion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


That's a good point, if the Domi's success is going to be centered around fighting exclusively with the sentries, then having any mobility with a fleet is going to mean abandoning a LOT of drones.

Should the domi really be abandoning drones to compete with the mobility of other combat battleships?

The domi should at least have a role bonus that increases sentry velocity up from 1 m/s, at least when being recalled to the dronebay.


I have to agree. I like most of the changes (after some reservations about the megathron losing a utility slot).

I have tested the new dominix on SISI somewhat. It's great for killing ships 1 class smaller than itself (fit medium blasters and a dual rep tank) but I can't see it being useful for anything we do any more. This saddens me. It used to be the most versatile ship in the game.

The new hyperion is fantastic, thank you, and the navy vexor is awesome.

The naxy brutix is meh (much too vulnerable to neuts given its cost), and the navy exequeror? Why would you fly this in preference to a brutix? you just wouldn't would you? It's more expensive than the brutix, weaker and does less damage. One medium neutraliser and it's finished, and any battle cruiser's guns will erase it in seconds.

This will be the least used ship in Odyessy.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#35 - 2013-06-03 20:17:15 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


You are forgetting WH brawlers ma'am!
Kaiio
Space Fukery
#36 - 2013-06-03 20:40:15 UTC
Don't know if it's been asked yet

Quote:
Navy hull rig calibration increase

As miscellaneous note, we realized only having 350 calibration on Navy hulls didn’t make much sense since they are supposed to be improvements over Tech 1 ships. As such, with Odyssey they will autoretromagically have 400 calibration instead. These were not the rigs you were looking for.


Do the pirate ships fall under the navy category? (seeing as they are somewhat of a navy for the pirates) Roll
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#37 - 2013-06-03 20:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Infinion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


That's a good point, if the Domi's success is going to be centered around fighting exclusively with the sentries, then having any mobility with a fleet is going to mean abandoning a LOT of drones.

Should the domi really be abandoning drones to compete with the mobility of other combat battleships?

The domi should at least have a role bonus that increases sentry velocity up from 1 m/s, at least when being recalled to the dronebay.


drone mechanics are already being looked at. so just because a weapon system is not as viable now does not mean it wont be in the future.

things to look foward to is:

Ability to use nanite paste on drones when they are in the drone bay

not having to recall drones when warping away for the drones to be moved to "in distance space" so that way you will not loose control over drones if you warp away.

sentry drones having the ability to move around at heavy drone speed but cannot fire. then you toggle the sentries to zero speed and gain ability to shoot.

small and medium sentry drones

ewar drones being balanced.

Moreover:
Increase tracking and optimal range will also help close range drones.

as an exploration solo 0.0 ratting ship my domi just got allot better.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-06-03 21:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Good work guys!!!

Although I still think that the gallente and caldari guns are a little unbalanced and not fitting as good as they should in the hulls. Take for example the Hiperion... what is that ship? I still think that you guys should try this: Split Hibrids

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228586&find=unread

All the other things: perfect!!!

Again, good work!!!
ThaMa Gebir
Penumbra Institute
#39 - 2013-06-03 22:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ThaMa Gebir
Well, I see the person who wrote that dev blog needs to go back to grammar school. His spelling / grammatical cases is / are awful.

First. He wrote where "the probem laid". It should be LAY.

Secondly. some extend Battleships... That should be EXTENT you illiterate cad.

What is the problem these days with getting something spelt right?
I will paraphrase something I read here a while ago; If you cannot be bothered to write something properly I cannot be bothered to read it properly.

Their is moast likeley soem moar i haev misst, btu carnt b bovvert tu fined dem.

Does that look right to you?

Edit: Now this is just insulting. " also follows the same pattern than its regular Tech " Are you freaking kidding me?
Write me a mail ingame with the right answer and I will rescind publicly my comments. Ytterbium only please. (Or one of the dev crew)

Thama out.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-06-03 23:47:18 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Infinion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aside from the soon to be retired to pathetic station games and gate camps T1 Dominix; good changes.


That's a good point, if the Domi's success is going to be centered around fighting exclusively with the sentries, then having any mobility with a fleet is going to mean abandoning a LOT of drones.

Should the domi really be abandoning drones to compete with the mobility of other combat battleships?

The domi should at least have a role bonus that increases sentry velocity up from 1 m/s, at least when being recalled to the dronebay.


drone mechanics are already being looked at. so just because a weapon system is not as viable now does not mean it wont be in the future.

things to look foward to is:

Ability to use nanite paste on drones when they are in the drone bay

not having to recall drones when warping away for the drones to be moved to "in distance space" so that way you will not loose control over drones if you warp away.

sentry drones having the ability to move around at heavy drone speed but cannot fire. then you toggle the sentries to zero speed and gain ability to shoot.

small and medium sentry drones

ewar drones being balanced.

Moreover:
Increase tracking and optimal range will also help close range drones.

as an exploration solo 0.0 ratting ship my domi just got allot better.

So basically your saying the Dominix is a PvE ship. I don't like the idea of balancing a ship based on another mechanic overhaul (drones) that is not even remotely on the horizon. Anyways, enjoy your ratting ship. I will stick with other battleships that are combat capable.