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Tech III Mining
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Markiel
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-06-06 11:48:28 UTC
Ewersmen wrote:
Big smileThis is a good idea ....why?......why not give miners something to aim for .

Make it require a huge amount of skills ...make it mine a crap load .....why not give the miners new toys ...and all you pvp junkies would love to blow up a t3 mining ship ...wouldn't ya WOULD"NT ya!! lol



I like this guy Big smile
Lai HasCake
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-06-06 11:50:56 UTC
These wont be used in high sec unless they have more tank than a skiff with more yield than a hulk and even more cargo space than a mackinaw.
They would be too prone to being suicide ganked by griefers as most miners probably don't know that if you lose a t3 you lose a level on the subsystem.
If they are implemented I really hope they have a subsystem allowing them to use mining links for boosting yield as it would be nice not to always use a cumbersome Orca.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#23 - 2013-06-06 12:01:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tah Dah

[Mackinaw, What you're asking for already exists.]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
[Empty Rig slot]


curiosity; does that fit work for ice too?


[Empty Rig slot] What could this be for? Oops

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2013-06-06 12:07:08 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tah Dah

[Mackinaw, What you're asking for already exists.]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
[Empty Rig slot]


curiosity; does that fit work for ice too?


[Empty Rig slot] What could this be for? Oops


Obviously another CDFE rig.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#25 - 2013-06-06 12:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Markiel wrote:
except you'd have to be at like 3k from your rock, which means you can't be aligned because you would be out of range in about 15 seconds.


Swap out your mids for webs and mine with a friend. You can be aligned to a safe spot at ~8m/s.

Quote:
Your tank still sucks, and it won't help in low anyways when you get a scram and a disruptor thrown on you. Ignoring the fact that you have to get the barge out to low sec to begin with. Or you might build it out there I guess, but it will get blown up, and sooner rather than later.


If you're sticking around until you get 3 points on you, you're an idiot. Secondly, you were complaining about the loss of the +2 strength the skiff has. How many points of warp core strength are you assuming your T3 will have?

Quote:
A tech 3 industrial with subsystems that support hauling and mining would serve a few purposes, and it would bring the more risk oriented miners out to low sec. No one in their right mind will take that fit out to low for anything other than lulz. The ore is not profitable enough to make the risk worth it currently. I don't think CCP is planning on balancing the low sec ores, since they just did the null, and even if they did it probably still would not draw too many miners.


The profitability of the ores has nothing to do with the ships being used.

Quote:
The current exhumers are just not meant for the kind of ganks that low would bring. Its not as simple as having a big tank with some stabs so you can survive till concord comes. We need some means of fending off attackers. I am not asking for a ship with an increased yield. I wouldn't want that, something with the yield of a skiff for low-sec survivability, or if the pilot wanted no survivability with the yield of the mack. The hulk should hold as the best yield in large, and safe, mining ops.

Plus the fact that about every other area of the game has had new ships introduced, and miners have been stuck with the same stuff for years now. P I know this isn't the most compelling reason, but come on, give us something new to strive for.


You avoid being killed in LS by either not being where someone who wants to kill you is, or by killing them first. A mining ship will never be doing the second option. EHP/Tank is irrelevant, since if you're tackled and can't kill/jam the tackler off you, you will die.

You fend off attackers by not being in a position where they can successfully attack you or by having a something that can fight handy to rescue you. Just like everybody else does.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Dave Stark
#26 - 2013-06-06 12:53:14 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tah Dah

[Mackinaw, What you're asking for already exists.]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
[Empty Rig slot]


curiosity; does that fit work for ice too?


[Empty Rig slot] What could this be for? Oops


i see you're ignorant to the fact that ice modules don't have the same cpu/pg requirements as ore modules. guess i'll have to EFT it myself later.
Markiel
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-06-07 08:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Markiel
RubyPorto wrote:


Swap out your mids for webs and mine with a friend. You can be aligned to a safe spot at ~8m/s.



Valid strategy. Haven't tried it myself, and might be hard with an odd number of alts.

Quote:

If you're sticking around until you get 3 points on you, you're an idiot. Secondly, you were complaining about the loss of the +2 strength the skiff has. How many points of warp core strength are you assuming your T3 will have?



Things happen sometimes, and with retrievers they happen more often than not. A retriever would barely be functional with +2 warp strength on it. I was hoping for a module that added +2 warp strength and then you could throw on a stab if you wanted. maybe have the warp strength module reduce the lock range penalty by 25% or so...numbers could always be tweaked and so could ideas.

Quote:



The profitability of the ores has nothing to do with the ships being used.




It kind of does. I can fairly safely mine low-sec in a venture. Its not really a viable source of income however because the ore you can get from low-sec at the rate you can get it with a venture will not make enough to justify moving from hi-sec. Conversly trying to mine with a barge or exhumer in low sec is way to risky for not enough of an increase in revenue to justify it. You could probably bring in more ISK if you were able to mine lo-sec without being disturbed...but we all know that is not going to happen. Therefore there's only about 2 ways to make miners want to mine in low. One being increase the value of the ore being mined, either through lowering the amount of low sec provided minerals throughout hi-sec, or increasing the lo-sec ores in general. Or two, make it so a miner can mine enough of the current ores just safely enough to warrent trips into low.


Quote:

You avoid being killed in LS by either not being where someone who wants to kill you is, or by killing them first. A mining ship will never be doing the second option. EHP/Tank is irrelevant, since if you're tackled and can't kill/jam the tackler off you, you will die.

You fend off attackers by not being in a position where they can successfully attack you or by having a something that can fight handy to rescue you. Just like everybody else does.



I pretty much said just this. I didn't include the Jam option in there because I didn't really think about it, but I definitely said that having Tank does not help you in low, it only prolongs your death.

Edited for extrea [/quote]
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-06-07 09:14:34 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
+1 for offensive mining subsystems. Want to alpha asteroids.

That could be an interesting idea. Instead of the usual mining, you just blow up the asteroid and scoop up what you can. Sure, you get a lower yield, but you're in and out much quicker.

Assuming your ship can survive the shrapnel cloud you just created Big smile

Still, this does sound a lot more viable for low sec mining than the current options. Plus it's bound to cause tears if it's allowed in high sec.
Terian en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-06-07 09:37:38 UTC
I don't know about tech 3 mining barges, but I would like to see the procurer having a smaller signature radius and/or receiving a utility high slot. I'm not entirely sure how fast it aligns, but maybe that could be improved as well.
xX1337xHoneyzXx
Belt Cloppers
#30 - 2013-06-07 11:27:52 UTC
Lai HasCake wrote:
This would be great imagine the miner tears when they lose 4 days worth of Skill points after being suicide ganked in high sec.


I would like to see the OP's suggestion, just for the quote above alone!

xX1337xHoneyzXx Agent of the New Order of High Sec "Helping miners, help themselves!"
Markiel
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-06-07 13:07:41 UTC
xX1337xHoneyzXx wrote:
Lai HasCake wrote:
This would be great imagine the miner tears when they lose 4 days worth of Skill points after being suicide ganked in high sec.


I would like to see the OP's suggestion, just for the quote above alone!



You know, I would like to say that miners wouldn't use it in hi-sec because of the lack of yield, and for the lost SP when ganked. However, I know my fellow miners can be rather dense at times, so ya....
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#32 - 2013-06-07 18:26:20 UTC
Markiel wrote:
Valid strategy. Haven't tried it myself, and might be hard with an odd number of alts.

With odd numbers you just run a chain.
A webs B, B webs C, C webs A.

Just make sure you fleetwarp so nobody gets left behind.

Quote:

Things happen sometimes, and with retrievers they happen more often than not. A retriever would barely be functional with +2 warp strength on it. I was hoping for a module that added +2 warp strength and then you could throw on a stab if you wanted. maybe have the warp strength module reduce the lock range penalty by 25% or so...numbers could always be tweaked and so could ideas.


When you screw up in EVE, you get killed.
A Retriever with 2 WCS mines about twice what a Venture does and about 90% of what a 3 MLU Retriever does. That's perfectly functional.

Quote:
It kind of does. I can fairly safely mine low-sec in a venture. Its not really a viable source of income however because the ore you can get from low-sec at the rate you can get it with a venture will not make enough to justify moving from hi-sec. Conversly trying to mine with a barge or exhumer in low sec is way to risky for not enough of an increase in revenue to justify it. You could probably bring in more ISK if you were able to mine lo-sec without being disturbed...but we all know that is not going to happen. Therefore there's only about 2 ways to make miners want to mine in low. One being increase the value of the ore being mined, either through lowering the amount of low sec provided minerals throughout hi-sec, or increasing the lo-sec ores in general. Or two, make it so a miner can mine enough of the current ores just safely enough to warrent trips into low.


Hed and Hemo (both LS ores) currently provide the highest ISK/m3 of any ore but Mercoxit. 314 ISK/m3 and 309 ISK/m3 respectively.
Pyro is the best HS ore and it runs 205 ISK/m3.
Ark is 301 ISK/m3 atm.

A double (or even triple) stabbed Retriever pulls in more ISK worth of ore mining any of the 3 LS ores than a 3 MLU one does mining any HS ore.

Odyssey buffed LS an 0.0 ores.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Markiel
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-06-08 06:23:24 UTC
I know it buffed null, but really it just buffed production in null with a minor buff to mining, since null already had the most profitable mining to begin with. It just made it so null had to import less low end minerals in to produce stuff.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#34 - 2013-06-08 06:30:23 UTC
Markiel wrote:
I know it buffed null, but really it just buffed production in null with a minor buff to mining, since null already had the most profitable mining to begin with. It just made it so null had to import less low end minerals in to produce stuff.


Buffing Gneiss and Spud, which Nullsec miners are forced to mine by the mechanics of industry upgrades, is a huge buff to Null mining. Also, compression means never having to say you're sorr that exporting takes no more work than it did before.

And you seem to have missed the part where I point out the fact that they also buffed LS ores. Meaning that you make more ISK in a Stabbed Retriever in LS than a 3 MLU Retriever in HS.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Markiel
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-06-08 07:56:09 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Markiel wrote:
I know it buffed null, but really it just buffed production in null with a minor buff to mining, since null already had the most profitable mining to begin with. It just made it so null had to import less low end minerals in to produce stuff.


Buffing Gneiss and Spud, which Nullsec miners are forced to mine by the mechanics of industry upgrades, is a huge buff to Null mining. Also, compression means never having to say you're sorr that exporting takes no more work than it did before.

And you seem to have missed the part where I point out the fact that they also buffed LS ores. Meaning that you make more ISK in a Stabbed Retriever in LS than a 3 MLU Retriever in HS.



I thought they just buffed null ores...? Can you provide the link the Dev blog saying that low sec ores got buffed?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#36 - 2013-06-08 08:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Markiel wrote:

I thought they just buffed null ores...? Can you provide the link the Dev blog saying that low sec ores got buffed?


http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore


Huh, I guess they weren't buffed. They're still worth more than Ark at the moment, so v0v.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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