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** HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now...**

First post First post
Author
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#401 - 2011-12-19 01:10:44 UTC
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
Still, it IS CCP's right to run their game however they see fit even if they alienate past, current and future customers.

Funny, last I checked there was a huge sigh of relief across literally the entire playerbase when crucible was released.

Well, maybe the supercap owners weren't the happiest bunch, but oh well so sad.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Temba Ronin
#402 - 2011-12-19 15:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Temba Ronin
Malcanis wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
[

This is how CCP looks to a lot of the player base, past, current and future:

CCP: "Ooo let's make a game where people can scam,steal, be pirates and basically entertain themselves at others expense and let's focus on that player segment at the expense of the others!"
Trolls: "YAY!!!"

CCP: "Damn, we need to get more players into our game. Any suggestions?"
Trolls: *crickets*

There's no mystery here.



Wow, well put ....

On the plus side, their approach gets big headlines .... seems like all the headlines do though is pull in 3 week trial subs who abruptly leave ....


I got interested in EVE when I heard about the GHSC heist, as did a lot of others.

Who the hell joins because they heard that you can mine Scordite in hi-sec?

If CCP does not want players to mine Scordite ih Highsec it is something they should eliminate. In fact mining is something they feature in their promotion of the game (Watch the promos). Player retention is negatively impacted by ganking people who did not join the game to be targets for feckless pirate PVP wannabes.

Truth be told gankers of highsec miners are cowards with no balls, even the miners risk getting killed by NPC belt rats without the player rats hunting them. It is a bunch of crap that so many people join because it is a free to scam, steal, and murder game, people join because it is a complex space sandbox with one connected universe that is constantly reshaped by individual player choices.

You wannabe pirates need to go PVP with someone who wants combat also, if you have the skills and the balls stop saying you love highsec carebear tears when the truth is you are too much of a coward to spend your time in wormholes, lowsec and null sec where you'd get your pitiful ass shot to pieces if you were not with your swarm of other juvenile misfits.

This is a fact that all your trolling can't change, grow a set of balls and target other PVP enthusiasts in WH's, lowsec, or nullsec or admit you want to get killmails with no risk of the target surviving and beating you for the easy exchange of a ganking ship.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#403 - 2011-12-19 17:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullbeard Rager
Lord Zim wrote:
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
Still, it IS CCP's right to run their game however they see fit even if they alienate past, current and future customers.

Funny, last I checked there was a huge sigh of relief across literally the entire playerbase when crucible was released.

Well, maybe the supercap owners weren't the happiest bunch, but oh well so sad.


Superlatives are almost always wrong, (c wut i did ther?), but I am glad there was relief for some people but will it mean that much to people who either don't play or play but felt Crucible wasn't hugely meaningful? Crucible was a fart in a hurricane albeit a welcome fart.Bear

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."

Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#404 - 2011-12-19 23:23:16 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Rage about suicide ganking


You've never tried suicide ganking have you?

You rage at miners being ganked in highsec by people with no balls who wouldn't last in WHs/low/null, yet you seem to be ignoring that one of the most prolific group of miner gankers recently has been Goonswarm, a nullsec sov holding alliance who just the other day have started invading a neighboring nullsec sov holding alliance. These are people who live in nullsec, who are now targeting "other PVP enthusiasts"

The irony is that you also say that EVE's appeal is "because it is a complex space sandbox with one connected universe that is constantly reshaped by individual player choices". Suicide ganking is a player choice that shapes the universe. The supply and price of oxygen isotopes has been driven by this player generated content. It is also precisely those player choices that make this a complex space sandbox - no PvE content can possibly hope to compete with the depth and complexity of player to player interactions.

Removing suicide ganking to improve the complex player-driven universe is simply throwing the baby out instead of the bath water.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2011-12-19 23:46:39 UTC
Calling suicide ganking "deep" and "complex"? Hehehehe ....

Worthy behavior of a sov holding nullsec alliance? Nah, not really ....

But hey, the Goons are happy with the way they are ... they attract a certain demographic .... the "game breaking bad guys" of EVE .... they're not out to be honorable and so aren't liable to care what names they get called.

I wonder what overall net effect such behavior (and it's allowance by the rules & sandbox) might have on subscriber numbers though long term .... would be awesome to be able to answer such questions! Lots of plusses and minusses to consider. It IS cool to play in a universe that allows such freedom of behavior ...
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#406 - 2011-12-20 02:31:55 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Calling suicide ganking "deep" and "complex"? Hehehehe ....

Worthy behavior of a sov holding nullsec alliance? Nah, not really ....

But hey, the Goons are happy with the way they are ... they attract a certain demographic .... the "game breaking bad guys" of EVE .... they're not out to be honorable and so aren't liable to care what names they get called.

I wonder what overall net effect such behavior (and it's allowance by the rules & sandbox) might have on subscriber numbers though long term .... would be awesome to be able to answer such questions! Lots of plusses and minusses to consider. It IS cool to play in a universe that allows such freedom of behavior ...


Please quote the section of my post that you misinterpreted as me 'Calling suicide ganking "deep" and "complex" ', and be sure to show your working, I'd really like to know how you got there.

Would you prefer an internet spaceships game where the only bad guys are mindless NPCs? Player generated content is the best content, and besides, what good would an epic spaceships game be without a good villain?

As for the long term effects of "such behavior", one only needs to look at the past 8 years, cause scamming, ganking and general treachery is nothing new in this game.
Temba Ronin
#407 - 2011-12-20 11:59:40 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Calling suicide ganking "deep" and "complex"? Hehehehe ....

Worthy behavior of a sov holding nullsec alliance? Nah, not really ....

But hey, the Goons are happy with the way they are ... they attract a certain demographic .... the "game breaking bad guys" of EVE .... they're not out to be honorable and so aren't liable to care what names they get called.

I wonder what overall net effect such behavior (and it's allowance by the rules & sandbox) might have on subscriber numbers though long term .... would be awesome to be able to answer such questions! Lots of plusses and minusses to consider. It IS cool to play in a universe that allows such freedom of behavior ...


Please quote the section of my post that you misinterpreted as me 'Calling suicide ganking "deep" and "complex" ', and be sure to show your working, I'd really like to know how you got there.

Would you prefer an internet spaceships game where the only bad guys are mindless NPCs? Player generated content is the best content, and besides, what good would an epic spaceships game be without a good villain?

As for the long term effects of "such behavior", one only needs to look at the past 8 years, cause scamming, ganking and general treachery is nothing new in this game.

You demand Takara quote the section you claim she misinterpreted while you write in "Quotes" words i never wrote lol what low brow arrogance.

Face it you and your afraid to undock alone swarm mates are the least common denominator in this game, the stuff you scrape off of your shoes after walking in a stable, the bottom of the bell curve losers that are holding the game back with your ignorance and childish game play.

I'll tell you what the difference is between a mindless ganker and a mindless npc .... not very much at all, just a killmail for the mindless ganker.

What would a spaceship game be without a good villain you ask, first you and your swarm mates are not good villains, not even close, you are low skill players who overwhelm almost unarmed highsec opponents with superior numbers and weapons. Your game play style is a hollow replica of the Sansha whose hallmark is their inability to think as an individual an are slaves to the Sansha nation, gratz on that accomplishment.

I certainly agree you and your juvenile swarm mates are the baby in the bath water, but i don't want to throw you out, just want you to mature and add to the sandbox something other then tantrums whenever someone prefers not to play your way.

Grow a pair and venture out on your own. Can't you think for yourself? Do really find enjoyment in being a faceless nameless tool for use by your alliance masters? I have great pity for things like you unable to make it on their own.

So your swarm is attacking another alliance in null sec? Exactly the point i made, this is what you follow the leader types should be doing all the time to keep your little minds occupied. If you think ganking ice miners in high sec made you a bunch of heroes you are not surprisingly wrong again. You simply made a lot of people aware that something needs to be done about the misfit horde that survives off of leeching from the builders and the makers in this game like an unwanted parasite.

Those choices made by your Alliance masters stimulated us to recognize the disease and now we need to identify the proper cure before you drive even more new players away from the game.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2011-12-20 13:55:52 UTC
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
Superlatives are almost always wrong, (c wut i did ther?), but I am glad there was relief for some people but will it mean that much to people who either don't play or play but felt Crucible wasn't hugely meaningful? Crucible was a fart in a hurricane albeit a welcome fart.Bear

Who thought crucible was a step back, then?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#409 - 2011-12-20 19:08:30 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Stuff


Yeah. I addressed your points in the "Office of the Chairman" thread, but I'm calling this as further indication of forum troll alt rather than naivety.

True, I paraphrased what you said, because quite frankly I wasn't going to use the entire 6000 characters available to me to simply restate what you said, it is still there for all to see anyway. See, I did it again without actually misinterpreting what you've said, just snipping it to show that I'm addressing your (rather bitter) post.

I think "Rage about suicide ganking" is a fairly good summary actually, when your post (both that one and this last one) is showing a lot of rage.

Examples:

"Player retention is negatively impacted by ganking people who did not join the game to be targets for feckless pirate PVP wannabes. ", "gankers of highsec miners are cowards with no balls", "You wannabe pirates"...

One last, very interesting quote:

"I recognize that hostile action is a part of EVE. If someone can profit from my demise, they WILL do so. Killmails have value to some people, so a kill just for the sake of a kill has value to them. This changes your perspective. Once you realize people will scam you, gank you, etc., you realize that it is entirely impersonal. They aren't out to get you, you just happened to be there. If your hulk gets randomly ganked, any other hulk that had been there would get ganked just the same. In other words, PVP is part of EVE, and it is going to happen. Consider it a force of nature. Raging about it is like raging because a tree fell on your car. Yes, it sucks, but who are you mad at? In EVE, the only person to blame is yourself. You didn't consider the threats, you didn't protect yourself, and you died. You just got killed in a video game. A video game. And here you are, frothing at the mouth, unable to even type coherently through the blinding force of your rage. "

From your bio.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#410 - 2011-12-20 19:23:32 UTC
That's a class 1 owning

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Temba Ronin
#411 - 2011-12-20 20:17:33 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Stuff


Yeah. I addressed your points in the "Office of the Chairman" thread, but I'm calling this as further indication of forum troll alt rather than naivety.

True, I paraphrased what you said, because quite frankly I wasn't going to use the entire 6000 characters available to me to simply restate what you said, it is still there for all to see anyway. See, I did it again without actually misinterpreting what you've said, just snipping it to show that I'm addressing your (rather bitter) post.

I think "Rage about suicide ganking" is a fairly good summary actually, when your post (both that one and this last one) is showing a lot of rage.

Examples:

"Player retention is negatively impacted by ganking people who did not join the game to be targets for feckless pirate PVP wannabes. ", "gankers of highsec miners are cowards with no balls", "You wannabe pirates"...

One last, very interesting quote:

"I recognize that hostile action is a part of EVE. If someone can profit from my demise, they WILL do so. Killmails have value to some people, so a kill just for the sake of a kill has value to them. This changes your perspective. Once you realize people will scam you, gank you, etc., you realize that it is entirely impersonal. They aren't out to get you, you just happened to be there. If your hulk gets randomly ganked, any other hulk that had been there would get ganked just the same. In other words, PVP is part of EVE, and it is going to happen. Consider it a force of nature. Raging about it is like raging because a tree fell on your car. Yes, it sucks, but who are you mad at? In EVE, the only person to blame is yourself. You didn't consider the threats, you didn't protect yourself, and you died. You just got killed in a video game. A video game. And here you are, frothing at the mouth, unable to even type coherently through the blinding force of your rage. "

From your bio.

This proves you can read but lack the ability to understand..........You call me a troll while not putting forth one reasonable idea of your own just, wah wah wah! play the way i play or you are doing it wrong statements. Perhaps if you had something to offer beyond fear ..... fear of change.... fear of flying alone..... fear of having to learn things on your own ...... you might consider that the person who does not agree with you is doing so not from your predetermined summary of their point of view. You take all the shortcuts of those who have nothing to offer intellectually but still for some sick reason feel compelled to shoot off their mouths so the similarly small of mind who also are fearful of change will pat them on the back.

You got the universe you want in nullsec ......... it filled with a lot of your type ....... and it is not working. Which explains why you need to gank in highsec. What a sad sorry little person you must be, to be able to read but not comprehend, to play a science fiction game but have no imagination of your own. I pity you and the type of player you are a good example of. Because you have the right of free speech as a sub of EVE doesn't imply you really have anything to say.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Temba Ronin
#412 - 2011-12-20 20:22:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
That's a class 1 owning

The self delusional self appointed defender of the status quo whimpers again, yawn nothing new here.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#413 - 2011-12-20 20:25:16 UTC
Says the guy who whined that he should be allowed to shoot characters with a GCC timer...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Temba Ronin
#414 - 2011-12-20 20:52:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Says the guy who whined that he should be allowed to shoot characters with a GCC timer...


You have been playing since 2006 i sincerely hope you know things about the game i haven't had the opportunity to learn yet, so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for that knowledge.

When you first started EVE how old was the game? Which relates directly to how much of a skill experience lead the veterans had over you when you were a rookie.

A rookie today faces players with years and years of a head start and you noble sage like veterans think or at least post like it's the same learning/ experience curve you faced when it clearly is not. It's a really simple point to understand if you pull your head out of your ***.

The game has evolved and changed and it seems a lot of vets are in their happy place and horrified that changes will disrupt their now easy gameplay ..... i only hope you remember how the game challenged you in your rookie year and that you can one day comprehend that it is far more difficult with thousands of you multiyear vets flying around with mega skills, top notch implants, ammo that takes longer to train for then many of us have been playing the game, boosters and hordes of your fleet mates preying upon the little new guy with a few months in the game still in or fresh out of his starter corp.

You have great knowledge that you can share, you have imparted some to me and i thank you for that, i hope you use your ability to communicate to help improve the game instead of being happy to pat on the back those small minded players who are so fearful of change in a game that has constantly evolved and will continue to do so despite the overly vocal minority of comfortable predatory veterans and their loyal toadies.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2011-12-20 21:10:22 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That's a class 1 owning

The self delusional self appointed defender of the status quo whimpers again, yawn nothing new here.

Hey, have you spoken to your fellow NPC citizens yet?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Temba Ronin
#416 - 2011-12-20 21:21:43 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That's a class 1 owning

The self delusional self appointed defender of the status quo whimpers again, yawn nothing new here.

Hey, have you spoken to your fellow NPC citizens yet?

Waiting to see how many times you'll ask a question that foolishly assumes i did not do it before posting .... it is always mildly entertaining watching you try to weigh in on things way above your head!

Do you know about my blog or weekly online surveys? Just because you lack knowledge of events does not mean they do not occur. It's a very connected world when you don't have to "always have to follow orders little bee!"

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2011-12-20 21:29:28 UTC
So what did they say, then? "Yes, let's go take a system from these easy to own carebears"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#418 - 2011-12-20 21:42:35 UTC
I would say here that Goonswarm Federation has recently finished a very successful newbee drive that has brought heaps of new players into the game and is helping them get started, which directly contradicts some of the statements made in this thread. But you know what they say about feeding trolls and letting facts get in the way of a good story.

What I'm REALLY interested in is Malcanis's law ("Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players."). This is something that is worthy of Raph Koster's (designer of Ultima Online and Star Wars: Galaxies for the unaware) Laws of Online World Design, particularly given the kudos it gets from wise and knowledgeable members of EVE's community.

There's a possibility I might get the chance to work with him soon - the company I am starting a new job with do contract work for Koster's Playdom. If I get the chance I'll be sure to mention it.

Although, I have to say, I particularly liked the irony of this bit: "you might consider that the person who does not agree with you is doing so not from your predetermined summary of their point of view". Well played sir, well played.
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#419 - 2011-12-20 21:44:02 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Just because you lack knowledge of events does not mean they do not occur.


WOW. You're just full of irony today aren't you!
Temba Ronin
#420 - 2011-12-20 22:10:37 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
I would say here that Goonswarm Federation has recently finished a very successful newbee drive that has brought heaps of new players into the game and is helping them get started, which directly contradicts some of the statements made in this thread. But you know what they say about feeding trolls and letting facts get in the way of a good story.

What I'm REALLY interested in is Malcanis's law ("Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players."). This is something that is worthy of Raph Koster's (designer of Ultima Online and Star Wars: Galaxies for the unaware) Laws of Online World Design, particularly given the kudos it gets from wise and knowledgeable members of EVE's community.

There's a possibility I might get the chance to work with him soon - the company I am starting a new job with do contract work for Koster's Playdom. If I get the chance I'll be sure to mention it.

Although, I have to say, I particularly liked the irony of this bit: "you might consider that the person who does not agree with you is doing so not from your predetermined summary of their point of view". Well played sir, well played.

Wow .... could you please elaborate on the numerical value of "heaps" and detail how the swarm advertised and brought new paying (cash or isk) subscribers to the game? This is potentially good news and might give us a way to compare retention rates amongst two groups of new subscribers of equal size.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!