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Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
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** HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now...**

First post First post
Author
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#241 - 2011-11-03 18:25:03 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I have said this before, I want my interests and the interests of my friends addressed.
I want representatives who recognize my play style and the playing style of people like me.

The current CSM, and most of the CSM's before that, are not giving me that "feeling". They are elected representatives that should be representing all of EVE online, from mining in empire to null sec. Their primary concern should be game balancing in every aspect of the game...

If they can't do that then there is no point in having them. Ugh

At the very least we could use an Empire CSM, Low Sec CSM and Null Sec CSM (or something). What we have now can only steer CCP in the wrong direction, and I believe has. Purposefully or not, It doesn't really matter, because a null sec only CSM cannot fulfill the above requirements. These are important requirements.

No ones "idea" of how the game should be played should take precedence over anyone else's.
CSM's must be fair, neutral and courteous in order to fulfill their intended roll.
Else they are useless to everyone.
They don't give you that warm feeling inside because they're not fighting to buff your mission bots / isk return. You got Trebor and that other person what's his name? Whatever. The current CSM got voted because they presented their platforms they believe in and also gained the favor of their own alliances because they share similar feelings.

PS: Use enter's less. Makes you look like you are skilled in grammar.


You argue like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum, Karadroid. Please stop posting now, kthxbai.

Ni.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2011-11-03 18:45:08 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
You argue like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum, Karadroid. Please stop posting now, kthxbai.

That'll show him!

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Sirhan Blixt
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#243 - 2011-11-04 00:43:58 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
You argue like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum, Karadroid. Please stop posting now, kthxbai.

:ohsnap:
Johan Krieger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2011-11-04 01:47:15 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Bascially thats just a warning shot saying "certain 0.0 dwellers who will remain nameless, it's time to shut the **** up" but I would like the CSM to continue because apart from some disruptive elements to it it actually does a good job.

I think he has just figured out that some people are getting a little to big for their boots and it's a polite way of telling them to calm down a bit.


This


Says the guy who can't honor an NDA.
Vio Geraci
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2011-11-05 16:27:07 UTC
The CSM need to focus on particular issues in order to get elected. People vote for candidates because they offer solutions to specific issues, not because of vague hand-wringing about general areas of the game. This focus serves the candidates well because CCP have a history of expending their limited resources on particular areas of the game.

When this batch of CSM's pet issues is fixed, a new group will be elected that has different pet issues. They can then try to get CCP to work on those. If you as a high-sec dweller feel that your particular issues are not being addressed, you should probably find a candidate whose pet issues reflect your views, and vote for them next time.

Engaging in feckless attacks against elected officials or the institution of the CSM is entirely the wrong approach. It is also generally more reflective of antipathy toward particular members of the committee, or toward null-sec players in general.

The worst is a short-sighted belief that any attempt to fix null-sec/low-sec/w-space somehow makes high-sec worse. This is even more hypocritical in the case of players that did not vote in the previous election. Work within the system to effect change, rather than destroying the only direct means of influence that players have over CCP. This company needs to hear things to their face, not read the results of gerrymandered polls.
Angel Lust
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2011-11-05 16:45:07 UTC
Remove the CSM Cool
Vio Geraci
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2011-11-05 17:28:39 UTC
Angel Lust wrote:
Remove the CSM Cool


Supporting statements?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2011-11-05 18:07:50 UTC
Vio Geraci wrote:
Angel Lust wrote:
Remove the CSM Cool


Supporting statements?

*crickets*



*crickets*



*crickets*

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#249 - 2011-11-05 18:19:40 UTC
Vio Geraci wrote:
Angel Lust wrote:
Remove the CSM Cool


Supporting statements?


"The wrong people won"
Angel Lust
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2011-11-05 19:20:27 UTC
Remove the go.... eh CSM naow...
Temba Ronin
#251 - 2011-11-05 20:15:15 UTC
Everything i have read leads me to believe the current CSM is not working in my perceived best interests. I am not convinced that removing the concept of the CSM is the proper solution. I hope Hilmar is clever enough to realize that focusing the future of EVE and Dust on the rantings of the flavor of the month CSM chair is lunacy.

If this game builds it's future on catering to the bitter whiny afraid to undock alone vets of Null it's going to implode once the number of Null alts reach the diminishing number of new players that stick around longer then a few months.

While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention. I sincerely hope that CCP does not actually believe that players are quitting because they are upset that life is too easy for high sec players.

This game will hopefully always have a hardcore contingent of elite pvp zealots but that should not be at the cost of not improving the game and making it more enjoyable for all players.

Newer players and representation based on where most players play not on where CCP wishes they should play needs to be implemented. A reformed CSM could consist of a High sec rep, a low sec rep, a wh rep, a newbie rep, a null rep and an at large rep from each empire.

This could be verified by CCP to make sure Phony Alts of high sec members could not succeed in pretending to be Null seccers and vice versa.

No player owned corp member could vote for the at large rep that would be restricted to players who have remained in their starter NPC a bunch of great people there who help new players get their space legs.

Love Null vote only in Null, Love WH vote only in WH and so on in most Democracies you don't get to vote everywhere you have an interest or a business just where you live. EVE's biggest sucking chest wound is the lack of balanced representation that understands ignoring player apathy towards voting might be a good strategy for winning an election with a large Alliance block of votes but it is a terrible business model for sustained and prolonged growth. Wake up Hilmar!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2011-11-05 20:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Mora
Temba Ronin wrote:
Everything i have read leads me to believe the current CSM is not working in my perceived best interests. I am not convinced that removing the concept of the CSM is the proper solution. I hope Hilmar is clever enough to realize that focusing the future of EVE and Dust on the rantings of the flavor of the month CSM chair is lunacy.

If this game builds it's future on catering to the bitter whiny afraid to undock alone vets of Null it's going to implode once the number of Null alts reach the diminishing number of new players that stick around longer then a few months.

While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention. I sincerely hope that CCP does not actually believe that players are quitting because they are upset that life is too easy for high sec players.

This game will hopefully always have a hardcore contingent of elite pvp zealots but that should not be at the cost of not improving the game and making it more enjoyable for all players.

Newer players and representation based on where most players play not on where CCP wishes they should play needs to be implemented. A reformed CSM could consist of a High sec rep, a low sec rep, a wh rep, a newbie rep, a null rep and an at large rep from each empire.


OK, totally with you on these points!


Temba Ronin wrote:

This could be verified by CCP to make sure Phony Alts of high sec members could not succeed in pretending to be Null seccers and vice versa.

No player owned corp member could vote for the at large rep that would be restricted to players who have remained in their starter NPC a bunch of great people there who help new players get their space legs.

Love Null vote only in Null, Love WH vote only in WH and so on in most Democracies you don't get to vote everywhere you have an interest or a business just where you live. EVE's biggest sucking chest wound is the lack of balanced representation that understands ignoring player apathy towards voting might be a good strategy for winning an election with a large Alliance block of votes but it is a terrible business model for sustained and prolonged growth. Wake up Hilmar!



OK, on this one ... would it maybe sortta be like proposing ... "registered political parties in EVE"? ..... I'm not gonna touch the issues with trying to filter out alts and such ...

I don't mind the idea of political blocs/parties .... nor the CSM ... actually, the CSM is fine as long as CCP filters them properly (i.e.-teachers should be smart enough not to listen to schoolyard bullies if the shoe fits) .... seems to me though that CCP would want to exhaust ALL avenues of player input - so why not have periodic computerized surveys of ALL members for example ... add that input to the CSM's input and CCP's perspectives and wham-o, wouldn't that be a much better picture than the current limited perspective that the CSM can provide (even WITH crowdsourcing, etc.)?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2011-11-05 20:42:20 UTC
Um. Point out those who are saying people are quitting because they think hisec life is too easy, please?

Also, how many sucking chest wounds are there for hisec that is actively threatening to stagnate hisec to death?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Temba Ronin
#254 - 2011-11-05 20:53:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Um. Point out those who are saying people are quitting because they think hisec life is too easy, please?

Also, how many sucking chest wounds are there for hisec that is actively threatening to stagnate hisec to death?

Gate camps at all the major trading hubs, station camps at every major trading hub station exit, laughable penalties for ganking, Empire wide interdiction of commerce by large Alliances still allowed free access to that same Empire space (like that would really happen), as far as pointing out who complains about the easy life driving players from EVE look to your Null sec reps on the CSM.

Come on Zim at least be realistic.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2011-11-05 21:52:39 UTC
Gatecamps and station camps on all the major trading hubs? Funny, I keep flying in and out of them all the time, they never seem to bother me.

As to my null sec reps on the CSM claiming hisec guys are leaving because it is too easy ... what I've seen so far has been mittens saying L4 botting is a problem, incursions are good because it teaches PVP-ish behavior (even though I find the wow-speak in incursion channels absolutely ******* atrocious), and Vile Rat wanting more hisec careers to make hisec more interesting.

Honestly, if I were to assume people in hisec left for a reason, I would assume it would be because hisec can be too boring, especially if they haven't found a good corp. Too safe? I think it seems mostly balanced wrt safety as it is. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2011-11-05 23:33:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Gatecamps and station camps on all the major trading hubs? Funny, I keep flying in and out of them all the time, they never seem to bother me.

As to my null sec reps on the CSM claiming hisec guys are leaving because it is too easy ... what I've seen so far has been mittens saying L4 botting is a problem, incursions are good because it teaches PVP-ish behavior (even though I find the wow-speak in incursion channels absolutely ******* atrocious), and Vile Rat wanting more hisec careers to make hisec more interesting.

Honestly, if I were to assume people in hisec left for a reason, I would assume it would be because hisec can be too boring, especially if they haven't found a good corp. Too safe? I think it seems mostly balanced wrt safety as it is. vOv


Interesting thoughts Lord Zim ... that hisec can both dangerous (enough), but boring at the same time ... maybe "boring" can't be measured simply by the level of danger ... and maybe it's not just a HiSec problem.

Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#257 - 2011-11-06 05:11:36 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention.


Name one.
Temba Ronin
#258 - 2011-11-06 06:54:46 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention.


Name one.

The Mittani

My typical voters appreciate war, murder, and cunning. They can be nullsec warriors, spies, gankers, scammers. Most of my efforts go towards fixing nullsec issues, as those are both the most broken in the game currently, and those closest to the hearts of 'my people', but I generally advocate on behalf of grief, conquest and terror.


It's from his thread posted here in the Jita Park Speakers Corner Post #56

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#259 - 2011-11-06 06:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
Let's try this again.

Rer Eirikr wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention.


Name one.


Something THE CSM has done to inflict injury to the playerbase, not what someone on the CSM in the game has done. Completely seperate things, and if you are unable to realize that then well, debating this point further is pointless.

Edit: I mean seriously you don't think Mittens would continue PwnZoning miners and morons if he wasn't on the CSM? It has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

So again, Name One.
Temba Ronin
#260 - 2011-11-06 07:30:34 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Let's try this again.

Rer Eirikr wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
While this self serving CSM tends to their own "sucking chest wounds" they scoff at every injury they inflict to player enjoyment and retention.


Name one.


Something THE CSM has done to inflict injury to the playerbase, not what someone on the CSM in the game has done. Completely seperate things, and if you are unable to realize that then well, debating this point further is pointless.

So again, Name One.

If you can't differentiate between a CSM saying he advocates for griefing and doing the actual griefing you are correct further debate with someone of your limited capacity would be truly pointless. I could give you more direct quotes of his advocacy of things that harm the player base but since you have what passes for you mind made up it would not matter. In the quote supplied it did not imply that the actions of the CSM in game was what I was talking about and what you should have been responding to in an intelligent manner. As a member of the CSM in that capacity this CSM and others fail miserably an it's easily proven by their own words.

He takes care of his "people" and advocates for griefing not exactly the definition of a member of the CSM that i read. Perhaps you have a different understanding of that also.

EVELOPEDIA.Beta The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”.

Now square those statements about advocating for his "people" with the actual job description keeping in mind the greater player base is NOT in Nullsec.

So you can understand when the CSM focuses the attention of CCP to their pet projects and personal political base that is in reality a large group of whiny vets afraid to undock alone it harms the player base because real problems go unaddressed.

Now there you have his description of what he does, the written description of what he should be doing and your position is totally debunked by indisputable facts. So this is where you man up and admit you where wrong or call me a pubbie or some other low brow exit device and go back to boot licking.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!