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Dust, money well spent eh?

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Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#141 - 2013-05-31 14:21:10 UTC
ign wrote:
[quote]..banal art design, poor shooting and driving mechanics, and a terrible grind..


Most people won't read any further than this part and that's the first paragraph. This is bad news.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-05-31 14:31:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
Must remember DUST 514 will continue to get updates just like EVE does. That means it will give CCP a chance to address the issues the reviews are mentioning. Give it some time before you declare DUST 514 dead or a waste of money.

I log onto Black Ops and there are, at any given time, over 150k people on with me. DUST 5k. Don't need a review to tell me what that means.
.


I guess it means that World Of Warcraft is 16 times better than EVE?


What is this thing people have about rating games based on popularity?

First, let's agree on simple terms:
Bad - when nobody plays the game, no income, servers shut down, game dies (see Tabula Rasa, etc.)
Good - lots of players, good income, server alive with people, game flourishes (see WoW, etc.)

Therefore, a game with more players is better (more good) than a game with fewer players (more bad). OK? Also, try to remember that CCP is a company with employees, and they are in business to make money, not benefit mankind. As such, CCP would be better if they made more profit, and there's only two ways to increase profits - get more players, or charge current players more. Since the latter is not viable as the P2P system is slowly dying off, it is the former - player numbers. Therefore, even for EVE, more players is better than less players.

Therefore, is WoW better than EVE because it's 16x more players? YES! And it's very simple and mathematically proven - 12 million accounts (in its heyday) paying $15 a month (give or take) is better than EVE making $15 a month from only 500k accounts. More money -> better. You can afford to hire more staff, improve quality and amount and frequency of content, can afford to develop the next game, etc. No money -> bad, because that's where everyone gets fired and servers shut down and the game dies, no money to finance the next game, etc.

Someone brought up Farmville. Not a fair comparison, seeing as it is not a paid MMO, no monthly sub. But even so, last time I looked they made around 500 million profit. EVE, by comparison, makes what, 90 million? Again, that makes Farmville better than EVE, because it makes more money.

Now, this is not to say that Farmville is better FOR YOU specifically. For you, EVE might be better. Different strokes for different folks - some people like to have their junk stomped with stiletto heels, it's just not something that works for the vast majority of folks out there. Therefore, we must use a universal yardstick, and that is still the almighty dollar. And usually, the more players you have, the more money you make. Thus, a game with more players is better than a game with less players, and way better than a game with no players, which is dead.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#143 - 2013-05-31 14:49:19 UTC
As many misgivings as I have about EvE, I feel it is just to defend it as a niche game. I absolutely hate when companies pander to the lowest common denominator. Using TV as an example, I think this attitude has brought us such great entertainment products as honey boo boo. Sadly the trend is seeping into niche television market giving us such great shows as swamp people, duck dynasty and the latest, guntucky. It's nauseating but I don't see it getting any better because its a vicious cycle, idiots keep consuming crap products that makes all of us just a little less intelligent, which slowly increases the base of people consuming crap products so the networks keep feeding us even more of it.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-05-31 15:05:38 UTC
Dust is not a good and enjoyable FPS game. I tried playing it, I really tried, but when the aiming is so atrocious and the vehicles controls so bad and the physics are just bad, there isn't much left in the game. The shooting sucks, the driving sucks, and really I don't see a reason to continue playing as there are hundreds of other dust bunnies to take my place in battles.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#145 - 2013-05-31 15:10:56 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
Dust is not a good and enjoyable FPS game. I tried playing it, I really tried, but when the aiming is so atrocious and the vehicles controls so bad and the physics are just bad, there isn't much left in the game. The shooting sucks, the driving sucks, and really I don't see a reason to continue playing as there are hundreds of other dust bunnies to take my place in battles.


You must be one of those glass half full guys. Roll

wumbo
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2013-05-31 15:11:19 UTC
FLUFFY DELIVERIES wrote:
I will keep it short, with all the money invested in dust... its kinda sad it can only pull a rating of 5.8 from ign?

Reminds me of walking in stations... another ground breaking project that took years to construct and was ultimately a massive flop.

other peoples thoughts?

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/30/dust-514-review


My only thought is, what's the point in reviewing a free to play game? A review is meant to be to help people determine whether or not they spend their money on the product.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#147 - 2013-05-31 15:18:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
FLUFFY DELIVERIES wrote:
I will keep it short, with all the money invested in dust... its kinda sad it can only pull a rating of 5.8 from ign?

Reminds me of walking in stations... another ground breaking project that took years to construct and was ultimately a massive flop.

other peoples thoughts?

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/30/dust-514-review


My only thought is, what's the point in reviewing a free to play game? A review is meant to be to help people determine whether or not they spend their money on the product.


Time is considered money to some. Reviews also help to show if people are willing to waste time trying a game out. If something gets a majority of terrible feedback, you can pretty much assume it is terrible .

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Admiral Sarah Solette
Drop the Soap
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2013-05-31 15:22:26 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
FLUFFY DELIVERIES wrote:
I will keep it short, with all the money invested in dust... its kinda sad it can only pull a rating of 5.8 from ign?

Reminds me of walking in stations... another ground breaking project that took years to construct and was ultimately a massive flop.

other peoples thoughts?

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/30/dust-514-review


My only thought is, what's the point in reviewing a free to play game? A review is meant to be to help people determine whether or not they spend their money on the product.


Time is money.

Also, after many reviewers giving Dust poor ratings and consistently mentioning poor controls, graphics, and gameplay, still seeing people defending Dust by saying 'lol ign', 'stop crying', and other such nonsense reminds me of this piece of gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg

It's okay to admit that a game you had hopes for failed. It's not the end of the world.
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-05-31 16:10:29 UTC
The biggest thing that struck me about DUST was the fact they attempted to shoehorn their skilling system into an FPS. On paper, this would be okay if it was more about tiered itemization (no grunt ever really started out as a tank driver until s/he trained for it...). But in this case, CCP took the skilling system at its worse and applied it to an FPS, which for most (myself included) isn't about skilling the character, but playing the game (to kill or be killed). If CCP devs wants an example of a novel and deep shooter, try out Far Cry 3. The biggest thing that made that game fun was that you can still kill effectively with any gun even if you're not spec'd into the particular skills that complement it. And that's what I feel CCP missed out on: skills complementing tiered itemization.Frankly, I knew CCP was heading into a disaster with DUST the way they focused on the PS3 during its last years of support. I would've waited until the next-gen consoles came out and done a proof-of-concept demo-test on the PC until I got the concept that fits well with FPS players in general.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#150 - 2013-05-31 16:14:16 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Steve Spooner wrote:
Dust is not a good and enjoyable FPS game. I tried playing it, I really tried, but when the aiming is so atrocious and the vehicles controls so bad and the physics are just bad, there isn't much left in the game. The shooting sucks, the driving sucks, and really I don't see a reason to continue playing as there are hundreds of other dust bunnies to take my place in battles.


You must be one of those glass half full guys. Roll


He's right though. Aiming is laughable, driving feels like Super Mario Cart and you get 2k skill points per match and level 5 in dropsuit command takes like 80k skill points or some sh!t.

One day DUST 514 will barely be worth playing.

That day is not rapidly approaching.

Not today spaghetti.
Arcelian
0nus
#151 - 2013-05-31 16:20:28 UTC
If dust will be playable on the PS4, I'll try it. Not getting a ps3, when ps4 is on the horizon, for one game.
Ghazu
#152 - 2013-05-31 18:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghazu
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Well, let's be fair, IGN is not the only one that's giving the game lukewarm reviews.

I remember when Dust hit open beta earlier this year. What happened? Nothing! Like, literally, nothing. I dropped by many prominent sites that would cover something like this, and not a word. Meanwhile, when games like Vindictus or Dragon's Nest were approaching beta, there were weeks of coverage. So, right out of the gate, Dust was a niche within a niche (EVE).

There's very little Dust coverage from what I saw, and most of it wasn't all that good. One review especially made me chuckle because the last point of Pros and the last point in Cons was the same - future potential tied to EVE Online. And the cons were weak graphics and bad controls - the two things you do NOT want in a first person shooter. And did we mention it was for PS3-only? When EVE is PC-only? Makes so much sense... But hey, all of this was covered already so many times, so why am I rehashing it yet again.

At this point though, I really don't think Dust can even be saved. FPS games have been making quite impressive strides forward. The Rage game by id Software had spectacular enemy animations (mutants attacking by leaping off walls, executing rolls to avoid thrown blades and so on), the Battlefield series is still going strong with its destructible environments and somewhat new mechanics such as suppression, lens glow on scopes to help deal with snipers, not to mention stunning graphics. Call of Duty I can't comment on, it's a little too ADD for me, but they manage to sell the same crap every year with record numbers, so they must be doing something right, right? And where is Dust in all of this? Oh, yeah, it's F2P, so there's no sales to report really.

And later this year we're getting Battlefield 4, and where will Dust be compared to it? Graphics? Controls? Features? Short on all of those. The only thing Dust has is the connection to EVE, a PC game that your average PS3 FPS gamer never played and never will, and thus the connection is utterly meaningless. I made this comparison before, but imagine if there was a connection between EVE and World of Warcraft. On a Venn diagram, the overlap of the two circles would be virtually invisible. I have a strong suspicion it's the same for Dust on PS3 and EVE on PC. One is an FPS on a console, and one is an MMO on a PC. Overlap between those? Not that great.

OK, all right, I admit that EVE is unique. Mostly because there really hasn't been any MMO about spaceships out there in a very long time. When was the last one? Jumpgate? More than a decade ago? But releasing an FPS sci-fi shooter, an F2P one, within months of MMOFPS like Planetside 2 or a bunch of futuristic F2P FPSers? Madness.


yo rage sucked balls
like christ just close up shop, id soft.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Dokten Ral
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2013-05-31 18:47:27 UTC
Didn't read thread, but Dust is a unique offering for a gaming experince unlike anything else on the market atm because of it's unique connection to EVE. Somebody gives it a 5.8? Big deal, they just don't get it yet..
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#154 - 2013-05-31 18:52:41 UTC
FLUFFY DELIVERIES wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
When did IGN become credible reviewers?


they have been for a long time... read the reviews they are pretty fair and explain their ratings well Cool



Are you simple?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Adunh Slavy
#155 - 2013-05-31 18:55:02 UTC
Not played Dust myself, but is it true your aim, pitch and yaw, and such things as cross hair moving with breath, are all related to skill points?

If that is the case, I'd not like it either.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#156 - 2013-05-31 18:59:30 UTC
DUST very well could be a flop, but considering they're trying something new in the FPS genre, I'll give it more than some early reviews of what I believe is still a beta before calling it.

That said, it sounds like they're struggling with some fundamental gameplay mechanics, so they should probably get that **** sorted ASAP.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#157 - 2013-05-31 18:59:31 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Not played Dust myself, but is it true your aim, pitch and yaw, and such things as cross hair moving with breath, are all related to skill points?

If that is the case, I'd not like it either.

No. Not at all.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#158 - 2013-05-31 18:59:58 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Not played Dust myself, but is it true your aim, pitch and yaw, and such things as cross hair moving with breath, are all related to skill points?

If that is the case, I'd not like it either.


I hear you have to play it with a joypad AND its an FPS.

That alone means it shouldnt pass 3.0 or whatever the equivalent of a terrible game is.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Adunh Slavy
#159 - 2013-05-31 19:02:42 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:

No. Not at all.



K, thanks for the info

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#160 - 2013-05-31 19:03:31 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

I hear you have to play it with a joypad AND its an FPS.



FPS with out a mouse and keyboard is not srs business.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt