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When will EVE Online get a 64 bit client?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2013-05-29 20:41:47 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
So you're going to continue to use that lame argument that there is no benefit and EVE would not run better with 64bit client?
I have to start before I can continue.
What benefit do you see from changing EVE from 32 to 64 bit?

Quote:
Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game.
No, it wouldn't. The game uses less than 1GB RAM and doesn't need, nor would it use the added memory a 64-bit-licensed Windows machine opens up.

Quote:
You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system.
Yes you can.

Quote:
If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs.
EVE already can make use of more memory, but it doesn't. So what makes you believe that there would be any kind of improvement?
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-05-29 20:42:41 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:

Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game. You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system. If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs. Keep trying to deny it.


Why does Eve need to use more than 2Gb? Its biggest assets by far are textures, and those are managed by the graphics driver. The graphics driver has a paging model, allowing it to do what it wants GPU-side. They don't have to be resident CPU side at all.
Khira Kitamatsu
#23 - 2013-05-29 20:52:03 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
When you move from 32 bit to 64 bit, yes, your integer math can deal with numbers twice as big. That's a win. There are a few more registers, which is good for compiler optimisation. But think about it: all of your pointers are twice as large, and the average program has plenty of those. Your memory usage goes UP because of it, and so does your cache thrashing.

It's not a win to go native 64 bit, unless you're paging from massive files (over 4Gb) or something.


Yes, but they are optimized for 64bit and so are modern CPU's with multiple cores. CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't.

This is why we can't have good things in EVE. :(

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2013-05-29 20:52:28 UTC
All that being said (64 bit argument aside) I personally would like to see DX11 and Tessellation utilized in EvE... which will require the user base to upgrade from XP or older.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2013-05-29 20:55:48 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't.
Again, [citation needed] and no, none of those require a 64-bit client.
Khira Kitamatsu
#26 - 2013-05-29 21:07:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't.
Again, [citation needed] and no, none of those require a 64-bit client.


Here is your citation.


#67 Posted: 2012.06.26 20:26 | Report

PinkKnife wrote:
Would it make a large difference? Is it worth doing? Hard to implement?

CCP Explorer wrote:
That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit but has everything to do with single core vs. multi core. And also 1 GB of RAM vs. 8 GB, but 8 GB allows the operating system to cache much more aggressively. Also, I daresay that there are very different graphics cards in these two machines?

Let's start with the number of cores: Even just a dual core makes a tremendous difference. That way EVE can be running on one core but the operating system can do network and hard disk IO on the other, in addition to running other programs (such as your browser, media player, antivirus, ...). You don't get a lot in addition with 8 cores unless you are running a lot of programs.

More RAM: More RAM is better since that allows the operating system to cache more of the file system. As soon as you have started one client then starting the second client will be a lot faster since the file IO actually doesn't hit the disk.

SSD: This is the best thing you can do for your computer. I have a three-year old laptop that I recently upgraded by replacing the spindle disk with an SSD (and upgraded from 2 GB to 8 GB RAM). It's a "new" machine.

Graphics card: This is the next-best thing you can do for your computer (if you play games). But do note that you want to buy from the high-end of a line of cards; if you need to buy something less expensive then you might be better off buying the high-end card from from the next line below what you really wanted.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2013-05-29 21:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Here is your citation.
…and no link. Goodie. Anyway…
CCP Explorer wrote:
That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit
…there you go. As expected. He also doesn't make any of the other claims you proposed. Also as expected.
Khira Kitamatsu
#28 - 2013-05-29 21:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Khira Kitamatsu
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Here is your citation.
…and no link. Goodie. Anyway…
CCP Explorer wrote:
That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit
…there you go. As expected. He also doesn't make any of the other claims you proposed. Also as expected.


No need to provide a link...those are his words. His saying that 32bit vs 64bit was regarding something else in the conversation that I took his quote from..."When people figure out that a 64 bit client will load a grid or change session faster than the people waiting for them in the bubble camp, you won't need an x32 client any more." This is what he was commenting on.

Oh and Windows 98 and XP cannot access more than 3.5 GB - no matter what you do - can't be done.

And yes Tippia, he clearly states that EVE would run better with more memory and multi-cores. Is your reading comprehension that bad?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2013-05-29 21:33:38 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No need to provide a link...
…aside from context, verification, further explanations. You know, the things that give a greater meaning to his saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

Quote:
His saying that 32bit vs 64bit was regarding something else in the conversation that I took his quote from.
So it doesn't actually prove your claims in any way then. So that's not the citation asked for. Goodie. Can you provide one that does?

Quote:
"When people figure out that a 64 bit client will load a grid or change session faster than the people waiting for them in the bubble camp, you won't need an x32 client any more." This is what he was commenting on.
…and answered that “That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit”. So there you go — still not making any of the claims you proposed.

Quote:
Oh and Windows 98 and XP cannot access more than 3.5 GB - no matter what you do - can't be done.
Those are licensing restrictions, not something that depends on 32 vs 64 bit.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#30 - 2013-05-29 21:39:16 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Tippia wrote:
When it becomes possible (depending on third-party middleware) and meaningful (depending on OS spread) and/or useful (depending on benefits vs. costs) to do so.

I.e. probably not in a while.


It is possible...it is a minority of players that is holding advancement back. The developers themselves have said repeatedly. Personally I think it is silly the CCP's is letting the hands be tide be a group of players that refuse to upgrade their gaming rigs. I think it is the onus of the players to keep up with the requirements of the game and not the developers to maintain old tech just to appease these hold-outs.

We could have tessellation, DX11 and our systems utilize the memory we have - instead of being hamstrung using archaic 32 bit client. We've seen what this game could look like with tessellation. We've seen what it would look like if the developers could make use of DX11. It would run smoother and not melt our machines CPU's and GPU's because the old game code is so 10 years ago.



So tessellation is not free, there will be a big art effort as well as testing to enable tessellation, it isn't a "set a bit and everything is pretty" thing. Additionally as mentioned in this thread in other places 64 bit isn't going to gain any benefits till the client is rewritten to take advantage of the 64 bit instruction set and memory space. CCP would almost certainly have to maintain and support both 32 bit and 64 bit for a while which takes up resources.

So the question is do we want CCP doing that or working on stuff like modular POSs?

I'd say tessellation and 64 bit can wait while CCP focuses on stuff we will enjoy more.

Issler
Khira Kitamatsu
#31 - 2013-05-29 21:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Khira Kitamatsu
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No need to provide a link...
…aside from context, verification, further explanations. You know, the things that give a greater meaning to his saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

Those are his words - take it or leave it.

Quote:
His saying that 32bit vs 64bit was regarding something else in the conversation that I took his quote from.
So it doesn't actually prove your claims in any way then. So that's not the citation asked for. Goodie. Can you provide one that does?

So CCP Explorers own words are not good enough. Sucks to be you.

Quote:
"When people figure out that a 64 bit client will load a grid or change session faster than the people waiting for them in the bubble camp, you won't need an x32 client any more." This is what he was commenting on.
…and answered that “That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit”. So there you go — still not making any of the claims you proposed.

Like I said, your reading comprehension is very inadequate.

Quote:
Oh and Windows 98 and XP cannot access more than 3.5 GB - no matter what you do - can't be done.
Those are licensing restrictions, not something that depends on 32 vs 64 bit.

Statement still holds true. You like to use that argument despite that fact that it is false. Keep trying though.

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GreenSeed
#32 - 2013-05-29 21:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
honestly a lot of people in this thread have no damn clue how PCs work.

" i have 16gb, i want eve to use all 16 gb, because.... because..... hurrrrrrrrrrrr"

Lol

srsly, any change on the capabilities of the engine needs to come with a reason.... the engine can display thousands of ships in space already, something necessary due to the scale of SOV warfare these days... yet the servers and the netcode cant handle it.

how does changing the game to 64 bits in any way change that?

why would you spend the limited resources we have on it, when those limited resources are better spent on updating the netcode, server infrastructure or some other change in the game, like updating the internal workings of poses and capitals, something which CCP keeps quoting as the reason the cant really do a POS iteration.

and the OP is either a troll or a 14 year old Wow refugee.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2013-05-29 21:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Those are his words - take it or leave it.
Oh, I'll take them alright, since they show that you were talking out of your lower back and not just making up things I've said, but have moved on to inventing things that the devs have supposedly said (when in reality, they said quite the opposite).

Quote:
So CCP Explorers own words are not good enough.
They're good enough. They just don't support the claim you're making and since you said that he had said something, I would expect a citation that actually said what you claimed. Instead, you provided one that did the exact opposite.

Quote:
Like I said, your reading comprehension is very inadequate.
It's working just fine. In the context of what you've quoted, he only says one thing: that 32 vs 64 bit doesn't matter. You're trying to present that as it saying that the client would be able to do all kinds of fancy things if it were 64 bit. That does not follow from his statement.

Quote:
Statement still holds true.
Sure, it's just not particularly relevant as Explorer's quote shows. And no, it's not false. There are plenty of 32-bit Windows SKUs that can access more than 3.5GB RAM — it's all a matter of which version and license you choose. Hell, if you pick the wrong one, you get less than that as your maximum.

GreenSeed wrote:
and the OP is either a troll or a 14 year old Wow refugee.
I get more of a '90:s console warrior vibe, what with the “moar bits!” rhetoric (Jaguar was obviously the best console ever) and clinging to restrictions that were removed in 1995… Blink
Solhild
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-05-29 21:55:21 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
All that being said (64 bit argument aside) I personally would like to see DX11 and Tessellation utilized in EvE... which will require the user base to upgrade from XP or older.


This.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#35 - 2013-05-29 21:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


All this and you still havent answered her question - Other than what you have read on Gizomodo about 64bit making "everything better," HOW will it specifically make EVE any better?

Since you use a 64bit machine, please elaborate...

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Khira Kitamatsu
#36 - 2013-05-29 22:05:40 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


All this and you still havent answered her question - Other than what you have read on Gizomodo about 64bit making "everything better," HOW will it specifically make EVE any better?

Since you use a 64bit machine, please elaborate...


I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her. Oh wait...maybe this is one of her alts. LOL!

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2013-05-29 22:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her.
Yes, you answered me (it's “him”, btw). That answer was a quote from a dev that said it doesn't make any real difference.

The problem is that we expected your answer to be something other than “nothing”.

Of course, if you do think it'll provide some kind of benefit, we can dig that question out again since in that case, you haven't answered it…
Velarra
#38 - 2013-05-29 22:30:40 UTC
A 64bit client would be nice for use with Commodore Amiga's running a 64bit 603 CPU card in conjunction with VM software for a wintel 64bit Eve client.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-05-30 00:51:48 UTC
In the spirit of eve, the weak shall fall behind! Go forth and release a 64-bit client I say! But really, WinXP was great, but it's 11 years old. Quit clinging to that old system and get Windows 7 or 8. Windows 8 isn't even bad, its only real problem for a normal user, is the metro ui which can be disabled with 3rd party software.
Tiven loves Tansien
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-05-30 01:03:07 UTC
How many other mmorp games have working x64 clients?

Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.



You are a baboon. THAT is a fact.