EVE General Discussion

Isn't it amusing how this inescapable fact always just gets handwaved away?

Almost as funny as people who get to use invincible 250-slot stations they can't get locked out of, for free, calling 0.0ers "lazy"...

And there it is. Nothing in EVe can be viewed "in a vacuum" (yea, pun intended, I know it's a space game). Everything is interconnected.

Yea, jump capability (JFs, jump bridges, cyno beacons , carriers etc etc) makes it very hard to choke of an enemy's supply from high sec. if you COULD do that , the people who are stuck on the idea that null sec is stagnant (isn't not) and impenetrable by small groups (it's mostly not) would really, REALLY be right, because 2013 isn't 2003 and null and low sec alliances can bring thousands of people to camp-in-force the access points.

Maybe jumping stuff is too safe (like maybe cynos shouldn't be able to be lit so close to stations), but to keep EVE Online's main economy driving feature (null sec combat, null has 11% of the population and most of the games real, major ship killing) it has to be that safe. Major changes in the game (like armed freighters and a change to how bubbles work just to start) would be needed to make it where being able to attack "supply lines" wouldn't choke the whole game to death.

Sure, in the broken world of todays logistics its a vailable mechanic, no argument there. But the sentence says it all, doesn't it? Its the last resort for lack of other options, but its nothing i would advocate to stay this way.

That Rhea made a stupid mistake. You have to make one jump into Mai from high sec. Maybe a scout would have been advisable, on the high sec side too :) ?

Simple, i don't have to make "much" more then in highsec (few %), i just have to make the same minus logistic hassle (if logistics are a hassle). At that point you have an advantage over highsec, and you can sell in bulk orders without 0.1 games. Thats enough, enough ppl would take that deal.

What if they started by scrapping that stupid racial outpost with different service availability BS and made outpost one size fits all with module plugged to get what you want out of it and if it eat fuel (I really am not sure) then make it able to eat any kind of race fuel. I can understand the "lore" reason to have lesser quality of service in an outpost compared to a station in empire since you are at the far ass end of the universe so you might not have access to the same tooling and such but if I was to design an outpost to start populate the far ass end of space, I would make damn sure I don't need for different model to do what I need semi efficiently.

John Doe : Welcome to our station Mr Smith.

John Smith : Pleased to visit. I'm looking to manufacture stuff to support the living of people here. Do you have any facility available for that?

J D : Yes we do sir.

*Visit of the facility*

J S : Those production lines are really nice, I can't wait to see the refining facility get the material ready for production.

J D : We do not have refining ystem here. *Point to a far point on a map* For this, you will have to talk to the guys in that other station.

J S : Why didn't you get a refining system in the design of the station, it would even allow you to cut the grass under those guy's feets.

J D : Look, we do manyfacturing here, reprocessing is not what we want to do

J S : *palm connect with face*

@Jenn
Thats the "the sky would fall" argument. EvE did work before, you know? There was a time when it was harder to do this stuff.

Now, i don't disagree on the difficulty to change anything, we just see a different possible OUTCOME. I look back and see what we have lost (yes, even the tedium).

OF COURSE a major rewrite would be necessary, we are starting from a different position today then back in 2006+. CBs and JFs ruined alot, and it would take a steady carefull approach to change it BACK.

I argue that it is a valuable path to take. I just see too many ppl stating it would be "too hard" to do and its better how it is now. I call bullshit on that.

It's not 2004 and it never will be again. You need to accept that if you're going to discuss game conditions and mechanics in 2013.

I'll reiterate this. When 0.0 industry is balanced with hi-sec, then "easy logistics" won't be an issue for anyone except alliances moving into 0.0 for the first time, and alliances who are getting kicked out of their space. Neither of which group really needs the boot putting in any more than it is already.

Until that happy day arrives, then I will absolutely oppose any further logistics nerf. Handwave all you like; JFs do die. Christ do I know it.

I wonder how many of the issues with nullsec industry will be fixed by the hopefully inevitable POS fix?

Imagine if industry in general, not just in nullsec was not based around the indestructible stations that we all know and love. At the moment, this is inevitable because the hassle of setting up a POS for production doesn't outweigh the bonuses of having one, but that is symptomatic of a variety of underlying issues.

The first is that there are far too many manufacturing slots in Highsec in general. Whilst if I want to run a ME research job in Highsec I have 20+ days in waiting time, almost all stations with manufacturing facilities have no waiting times for production. And contrast the profitability of running a highsec research POS with running a highsec construction POS - one of these is relatively common, the other much rarer.

I would prefer a world where a big time industrialist should consider a POS the normal construction environment rather than doing it all inside stations. That would put a lot more potential for highsec economic warfare in place, because a corp would have to place a lot more at risk to become a major industrial power. The only real issue would be making sure there are ways for new players to get into industry when they don't have access to their own corp POS - one I'm sure can be fixed.

The second is the clunkiness of the POS system in general. It really needs an overhaul, and many better ideas than anything I can come up with have been suggested before on these forums. Perhaps most importantly is the disparity between the station and the POS refinery mechanics. If stations were made equal to POSes in refinery efficiency and/or time, or POSes were made closer to station efficiency, then I think industry in nullsec would be a lot more productive, even if not necessarily easier.

If you can fix the difficulties of producing in nullsec, then the current need (and it is a need, as other people have written already in this thread totally accurately) for massive amounts of imports from high to null would be massively reduced. Then, and only really then, can people seriously discuss reducing the ability for nullsec to import most of its items from highsec.