EVE General Discussion

Having a good think about the "cutting the throat of Nullsec" comments. Would it really be cutting the throat of Nullsec or would it be cutting the throat of huge powerblocs who other than themselves, nobody really likes anyway.

Nullsec used to be fun, it was not sims in spaceships, safe, cozy and easily defendable or spreadsheets online. Breaking up the titan super-highways might also be seen as releasing the stranglehold by these blocs on the majority of 0.0.

That would indeed create PvP as smaller more realistically sized alliances fought over the spoils. Realistically as in they would need to take into account logistics, mobility and home defence which is not an issue at this time.

Oh one more thing, to the previous poster, mechanics can be changed, its a computer program. EvE has changed radically before and will likely change radically again. I'm sure there are easy changes that could be made to wormhole mechanics to prevent big alliances from exploiting them for easy play mode.

Also log on traps have been a big part of EvE since release. People dealt with them before Titan superhighways and they can deal with them again.

A space ship game with scares space ships isn't a space ship game. EVE works because it lets people throw space ships at each other. High Sec industrialists who play the game to building things get to build things because of this. The cycle of (EVE) life is strong right now.

What you suggest would tank the economy, for what? So some null sec pirates could pretend they are important because they used whelp canes to kill a freighters before the freighters escort could finish killing them?



If things are scare PEOPLE DON'T RISK THEM in this game. This is why the whole idea of "more pvp by changing cynos or getting rid of jump-ships) is so insane, these kinds of ideas result in less pvp. And example is the anomaly nerf that was suppsoed to give people a reason to fight, but ended up simply making people take characters out of null for PVE, which meant less targets.

If you want more pvp (I don't, I think the balance of build and destroy is pretty ok right now) you should make it EASIER to build and buy ships making losses less meaningful. I don't think that's a good idea either.

That's what a lot of you people are missing, the actual realities of how players of EVE online play. Idealism like that has no place in game design, because people love to break game maker's ideas into small pieces and then laugh at the game makers.

The space that is currently claimed because you can simultaneously defend your home systems and your outlying regions even if they're all the way the other side of universe without over-extending and leaving your home systems vulnerable. That extra space would be the spoils.

All the factors you identify are real factors but none of them add up to the supposition that building from a POS would double the price of a battleship. How do we know? Simple. Because we already have a working economy based on building from POSes in null where all these risk factors apply: building supers. And the figures for supercap building show that the risk/tedium premium would be nothing even vaguely approaching what is being claimed. My figures are a little out of date but feel free to bring them up to the moment. Two years ago the monthly return on investment for running a super-carrier production line was about 12%. That's 12% per month. If memory serves, a Titan production line was something like 18% (the extra return reflecting the much higher setup costs as a barrier to entry, as well as the greater risk of the longer production time).

If battleships doubled in price purely on the basis of building from a POS, do you know what return a builder churning out ships every day would make on his production line as compensation for his risk? c. 1200% per month. 1200%. He would make a roughly 50% return on investment every single day. The claim that this is the premium builders would charge is beyond absurd. It is completely refuted by the evidence of what real nullsec industrialists do charge when pursuing the much much riskier production of supercaps rather than battleships.

tl;dr Malcanis' 2-3x price figure is pulled out of thin air and reflects a considerable ignorance of how industry actually works.

Would love to see nullbears try and invade wormhole space....that's always ended well.

Hey, I was in IRC...

I mean, I got better, but still....

It wouldn't be the bears. It would be the wolves that the bears support.

One of the things I have found in Eve is that if someone wants what you have badly enough they will find a way to take it from you. It may be a straight up kick the door down frontal assault. Or they may sneak in the back, throw your stuff in a sack while you're out grocery shopping, and then shoot you in the face when you come in the front door.

I'm not going to do the dance of the illegitimate argument from authority with you. You'll get no response from me to your attempts to shut down disagreements with you in such a feeble way. Let's talk about numbers instead (and I'll leave it up to your imagination to decide why I'm familiar with the numbers).

We know roughly what the monthly returns actually are for builders building from a POS in null (I assume they haven't changed very much in the last two years). They are not the absurd 1000% plus that you claim they would be.

If you think that a battleship producer working from a POS would require a 100 times greater monthly return than a supercap producer, tell me why.

Hell, your blanket 2-3x figure just betrays great ignorance of the entire topic because whatever risk and tedium premiums there are will be applied to construction cycles and units of time, not units of end product. The distribution of the premium across the end product will differ wildly from one type of good to another because different quantities of different goods will be built in any given cycle of a production line.

It makes no difference, the holes you would require for this are the larger ones form C5 and C6 (the ones capable of supporting freighter sized vessels). You simply can not and will not beat those established bigger wormhole alliances in their own game. Sneak back while one is shopping? Doesn't make any difference, the rest of the 250 guys are still going to be in there, complete with capitals and t3 support fleets. You have your own? Nice, come back to it after you've connected to us 5-20 times more so you can match what the WH corps have thanks to those mass limits. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, all I'm saying is that you are not ready nor willing to put the effort into doing so. It's a constant struggle for the big wh alliances to find proper fights because of this very same issue, nevermind to someone who doesn't live and breathe WH style pvp, which is a whole other ballgame to what you're accustomed to in null.

And no, this isn't a wh corps are elite and you are scrubs message, we can't beat you in your own game either. Nor do we claim to do so.

in other words, wormholes are too safe