Intergalactic Summit

My analogy was simply intended to illustrate that I am attempting to accomplish an objective for which violence is not the most practical tool.

I honestly have no idea what you mean when you say "[You are] polishing your gemstone with a filthy rag, whilst your foes run it through a woodchipper.". Who are my foes? What is the gemstone? I suspect that my objective is very different to what you appear to imagine it to be.

here:

The current state of affairs is that the Amarr Empire ultimately poses an existential threat to the Caldari State. We are on their list of Heathens in need of Reclaiming, which means that ultimately they view us all as future slaves.

My objective is to remove that existential threat. There are many ways in which this objective could be accomplished, but for the sake of simplicity let's reduce it to two: Militarily, and diplomatically (for the sake of ease, consider economic means to be folded into the diplomatic).

The military option would consist of destroying their ships, smashing their armies, dismantling their military-industrial complex and I breaking their morale. I judge this to be simply impractical - the Empire is too large, open war with them would in fact rather dramatically increase the existential danger to Caldari society, and in any case I don't wish them destroyed. They're potential customers.

The diplomatic option is lower-risk. Incentivise them off slavery, win the theological and philosophical arguments, convince them that Reclaiming does not require them to absorb and dismantle foreign cultures. Go only so far as to secure an empire that is no longer an expansionist, proselytizing threat to our way of life and then back off and let them live their way and leave us to live ours.

I have chosen the latter course, on the grounds that it seems more workable. Now, please tell me why I should employ violence in the pursuit of that objective?



Routinely, in fact. Provided both participants actually listen to what the other has to say, and seriously think about it without preconceptions.

Sure, it doesn't happen in the majority of cases because people have egos, but if you are going to claim that a person's mind cannot be changed by words then you have a more cynical opinion of mankind than I do, or even than the Amarrians do. Wy would the Amarr even bother with preaching and missionary activity if they saw it as impossible for words to change somebody's mind?

Conversations evolve. Is that really such a bad thing?

As I have said, they pose an existential threat to us. Just because we're not yet being shot at doesn't make their objective any less real. The "meddling" lasts only so long as that threat exists. Basically, the right of any nation to go un-meddled with extends only so far as their own borders. the second they drag another culture in, they've crossed the line.



Short-sighted. The only excuse for rallying your forces and preparing your supply lines after the invasion has already begun would be if you didn't see it coming, in which case you must then account for your failure of foresight.



I entirely agree.



Now that's an interesting point. I'll have to give that some thought.

However...



If you truly believe that words can accomplish nothing and that the only valid way to make your point is to shoot people, why are you bothering to argue with me? I'm enjoying the conversation, but you're contradicting yourself by even participating.

Interesting conversation you started Kim Ji-Young. I thought where you said "maybe I need a drink" to be the most revealing comment! I know I had a few while reading everyone's thoughts.

Do you know what I like best about the Amarr? As a people they are among the most introspective folks I have ever met... they also have the biggest demons.

The Gallente are pretty hard to shock as they have whole planets designated 'red light' districts. The Caldari put on a real show of a regimented, martial society... and as a rule they are real tight-asses until you loosen them up with a little Outer Ring Brandy and some Blue Pills... then they become normal. As for the Minmatar, espeacially in the Tribal regions, pretty much anything goes! The tribal emotional spectrum just doesn't include guilt.

Me? I'm an independent and I smuggle stuff. Anything and everywhere! No guilt, its just business. I have to admit to you though the biggest consumers of my smuggled 3d holo porn goes to the Amarrian priesthood. Priests are my best customers! It would seem the closer you get to certainty the further away you get from reality.

So if you do meet Sofia and Liberty and want to struggle over Amarrian values conflicting with your own and the burdens of immportality weighing heavily on your conscience... Then I sincerely wish you the best of luck with that!

If on the other hand you three girls want to just go out somewhere and get smashed then send me an invite! I'll bring a case Khanid Scotch, Blue Pills and my holo camera.

Captain Ji-Young, I did not mean to imply that part of the solution was to get completely drunk, merely that my personal ritual involves a drink, usually a small glass of brandy and a prayer. It is the act of paying respect to those who were lost that keeps me 'grounded' and capable of continuing on to the next day and the next mission.

However, if you feel that getting completely drunk will work for you, I will gladly join you for a drink, or five....maybe even more. The point is, find what works for you and stick with it. There have been many good suggestions and perhaps you may come across your own method of coping.

Godspeed Captain.

I am not necessarily seeing how they meddle with our affairs, especially when compared to the federation. You, however, seem to cross that line yourself.

I've killed many... too many. And I can tell you one thing: the moment it gets easy, you are lost. I'm not good at giving suggestions on how to sleep well, as I don't. Only during my years in the monastery could I sleep again decently, and those days are gone. Alcohol is not a solution either, it helps in the short term, but if you rely on that it ends up destroying everything. Drugs do the same, as is any other external action such as sex, fights, or gymnastics.

You have to eat it.

And you have to make it remain hard, for it's what keeps you humane, and sane.

The only way I've found to make a certain peace with it, is to make it count. Each life you take has to make things better one way or another. And for that, you need to trust: trust your corporation supperiors when they call on a target, trust on the empire's officials when they call you on a mission... trust that they are doing the right thing, and you're doing your side of the bargain, your duty. And it'll make life easier and better for others.

As for kittens, I'm not much of a cat person, sorry.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't agree that voicing my contempt for them in a public arena and talking a whole lot in the hopes that somebody either is persuaded of my position, or else manages to produce an argument to convince me why my position is wrong, constitutes "meddling in their affairs". This board exists for the intended purpose of talking about our political opinions. It's not like I'm hijacking the broadcast satellite network over Dam-Torsad and replacing the chilrens' favourite clown with my philosophy. I'm sharing it in a forum of public discourse frequented by (ostensible) adults.

Be that as it may, as I said: if you have to wait for the first shot to be fired before you begin to defend yourself, then you are a failure as a strategic planner. Even if they had not yet taken any action, they intend to, eventually.

But they have taken action. Imperial missionaries are present in Caldari cities, a percentage of our people have converted to Amarr and there are in fact Caldari slaves in the Empire. They already HAVE begun interfering in our culture, and I am responding to a much lesser degree. All I'm doing, after all, is expressing my opinion in a public forum, and seeking diplomatic and economic alternatives. They meanwhile have spent decades buttering us up, and this entire conversation suggests that you at least have swallowed their bait.

Their stated, intended goal is to make the whole of humanity follow Amarr. This is not a secret, it's the entire basis of their foreign policy, and you think I'm the one meddling in THEIR affairs? How the hell much did they pay you to stick your fingers in your ears and sing?

You're considering the Amarr Empire - at this very moment - an existential threat to the State and the caldari people. I might point out that we're still in some state of war with two other empires, so this claim reeks of exaggeration.
By all means, we ought to be cautious. But at this point I see no reason to use the abovementioned claims as justification for this amount of bile. I solve practical problems, and at this very point I'm working on a very real threat, not something born out of my personal dislike for someone else's customs or believes.

Indeed, and for that much thanks. But we all do our part, and mine involves dealing with what I absolutely acknowledge is a problem on the horizon. Somebody must, because while I absolutely see the value in shooting the wolf that's in with the chickens, somebody also has to worry about the fire hazards in the barn, even if it is not currently on fire.

For all my talk about the power of discussion I am in no way causing harm to the Amarr. Nobody is dying or being maimed, the absolute most that can happen is that somebody listens to me, thinks about what I'm saying, and decides that on balance they agree. The vast majority of Amarr citizens will never read a word I have written.

If their culture elects to abandon slavery and the Reclaiming, then it will not be because I forced them to, it will be because they decided to, and by the time that scenario arises - if it should - my voice will not be remembered. I'm neither the first to say these things, nor the wealthiest, the most powerful, the most enthiusiastic nor the most famous.

So why should I not frankly express my views? If I am earnestly of these opinions - and their accuracy is a different matter than the justification for their communication - would you prefer that I lie, whether by omission or falsehood?

I speak my mind, honestly. This is in most cases considered to be a virtue. I am not to blame for whether the poor thin-skinned delicate Maries get all offended, nor would I care if I were. Offense has never been a good reason for silence. Consequences are a good reason for silence but I note that I am a multi-billionaire Empyrean. The range of possible negative consequences I can suffer as a result of my willingness to speak is quite limited, and I view them all as being acceptable in light of the possible positive consequences. I don't foresee the State suffering as a result of my words - I am after all a fringe element, not a megacorporate director or anything. I don't foresee my corp suffering - it's already pro-Republic.

So again: If I honestly believe what I am saying (and I do)... why should I not speak my mind in a public forum that exists for that exact reason?

If you wish me to be silent, then you need either to demonstrate a very good reason why I should be, or else demonstrate that the things I'm saying are wrong.



I do not.



I quite agree that it is their prerogative. Just as it is mine to express my skepticism and my objections to their adopted faith. I'm not forcing anybody to listen to me, I'm not hijacking commsats or the Echelon evening news, I'm not tying people down and forcing them to pay attention. I don't think I, or anybody else, has that right.

All I am doing is sharing my opinion in a forum of discussion which exists for that very reason. Anybody who does not wish to hear what I have to say is under no obligation to do so. I am unclear as to what your problem with that is.

As for Amarrian dogma versus Gallentean ethics, I can only comment that if you truly think the Gallente are in favour of anarchy, rejection of lawful authority and anti-social violence then you really haven't been paying attention to the political trajectory of their recent history. Do the FIO, the Black Eagles and the arrest of the Hanvyners not sound familiar?

I first took a serious interest in what the Gallente have to say some years ago now, initially in a "know thine enemy" sort of way. I am honestly of the opinion that the downsides to Democracy outweigh its benefits, and they have a history of absorbing smaller cultures through diplomacy and the velvet glove. There are a lot of good reasons to dislike the Federation, and in fact plenty of good reasons to like them too.

Does your vision of the Federation really consist solely of that image of the graffiti-scrawling, hedonistic, selfish, short-sighted scumbag who gets high on something unhealthy and sings bad songs about anarchy and breaking stuff? Sure, those people exist, but they're one tiny minority subculture in a sprawling jambalaya of humanity. They exist in the State too. The difference is that we call them "enemies of the State" and "Guri", whereas the Gallente just call them "idiots."

They're our enemies. Fine. I actually have no problem with that. But I won't indulge in this childish diminution of our enemies into a shallow parody.