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Deeply concerned about scanning changes

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W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-05-30 03:13:22 UTC
In my opinion these changes aren't very good, I don't like the devaluation of virtue sets and in the new scanning meta probing t3 ALTs is going to a lot harder. No dsps mean that finding link alts in the first place is going to be a lot harder, you also can't probe ships with dsps anymore which is a direct nerf to catching mission running carebears. All in all bad changes.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#162 - 2013-05-30 09:59:53 UTC
I'm not too concerned about the mechanics changes, but I am concerned about video card load. Should we start a pool on how many GPU's let out the magic smoke?
Signal11th
#163 - 2013-05-30 10:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Haulie Berry wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
This is not the least bit ambiguous. Stop being obtuse.


Not ambiguous now that the devblog has come out and CCP SoniClover has explained that they had a reason for taking DSPs out. Until then, CCP Greyscale was only admitting that removing DSPs impacts the exploration gameplay and offering a workaround.

Now the concern is that other types of gameplay will be removed from exploration because skilled scanners are too good at finding ships in space compared to the unskilled ones who probe every ship from 4AU constellations one range increment at a time. The criteria offered by CCPs SoniClover and Greyscale is that when skilled players get too good at doing something compared to unskilled players, they have to nerf the game to make things harder for the skilled players and easier for the unskilled players.

So is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled PvPer can narrow someone down to a small region of space using nothing else but D-scan, then plonk a 0.5AU constellation of combat probes on that location?

Is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled trader can roll 500M ISK over and over in a series of 1% profit trades through the course of a day to make 100% gain in one day?

is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled pilot can run level 4 missions in an assault ship?

Is it a "soft exploit" that some L4 missions can be completed in a shuttle?

Where does this madness end? Big smile



Those are all clearly comparable to a situation where you have a bunch of mysterious signals out in space, and can trivially deduce what they most likely are at a glance, despite the fact that under other circumstances, the system won't even give you a hint as to what they are until you've scanned them down to 25%. Roll

Again, stop being obtuse. I used DSPs, too, but it was always EXTREMELY obvious that lookup tables were an unfortunate and unintended consequence of probing math, and not an intended function.





Aye because God forbid we humans couldn't take things that were puzzling and make them alot easier to assimilate.
From my limited time in EVE all I've ever seen is more intelligent people than the Dev's play the game and streamline it so they don't have to spend all day doing one thing.

The Dev's finally cotton onto this and place barrier's to stop the streamlining process and place it under the guise of non intended mechanic or helping the window lickers.

Did our beloved and tireless CSM have any input on this or are they still backslapping themselves?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Torrentula Chromus
Perkone
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-05-31 02:56:35 UTC
I read a good amount of this thread and can't believe how greedy some people are. I hope half the ppl here quit cause your attitudes stink and would be doing eve a service by leaving. It a shame to see experienced players more worried about having a leg up over everyone else vs creating a game that is balanced for all players. These changes level the playing field for everyone. People are but hurt cause they can't farm the premium sites with ease. Good. Being new to this game I'm glad with all these changes. God forbid cpp make the game fair. I play the game for fun. It sucks when you have farmers taking all the good stuff because of a non intended trick. Now its even. We both put in some scanning time.
Haulin Gneiss
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2013-05-31 03:12:39 UTC
Torrentula Chromus wrote:
I read a good amount of this thread and can't believe how greedy some people are. I hope half the ppl here quit cause your attitudes stink and would be doing eve a service by leaving. It a shame to see experienced players more worried about having a leg up over everyone else vs creating a game that is balanced for all players. These changes level the playing field for everyone. People are but hurt cause they can't farm the premium sites with ease. Good. Being new to this game I'm glad with all these changes. God forbid cpp make the game fair. I play the game for fun. It sucks when you have farmers taking all the good stuff because of a non intended trick. Now its even. We both put in some scanning time.


And by fair you mean:

a) you don't get good stuff cuz your skills are low
b) you don't leave high sec so your finds are weak and therefore you expect more
c) skill development should be cast aside and noobs reap equal rewards with someone that's played for 5 years.
d) all of the above?

Truth is...CCP needs subs and dumbing the game down so playstation players cross over is the future. This was a game where your skill tree mattered and professions mattered.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#166 - 2013-05-31 04:05:35 UTC
Torrentula Chromus wrote:
I read a good amount of this thread and can't believe how greedy some people are. I hope half the ppl here quit cause your attitudes stink and would be doing eve a service by leaving. It a shame to see experienced players more worried about having a leg up over everyone else vs creating a game that is balanced for all players. These changes level the playing field for everyone. People are but hurt cause they can't farm the premium sites with ease. Good. Being new to this game I'm glad with all these changes. God forbid cpp make the game fair. I play the game for fun. It sucks when you have farmers taking all the good stuff because of a non intended trick. Now its even. We both put in some scanning time.


You read a good amount but comprehended a small amount. People who can farm the premium sites with ease will now not be able to do so, they will need 2 ships. The skill queue is the same for everyone. If you trained into ship X to run site Y in XX minutes everyone in the game has that opportunity. Its being taken and devaluing ships that people trained into, giving the new players no advantage whatsoever, and screwing 'bitter vets' over. The patient nub who knows how to use the internet would have been able to do so in the same amount of time or faster than an older player. Now they will suffer the same limitations as everybody.

In addition to that you fail to see point of time consumption. How about someone who doesn't want to farm the premium sites, he just wants to find kspace? The 'good' changes to the system will make it quicker, but the lack of having bands to scan seriously screws over Wspace corps, ninja's, explorers.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#167 - 2013-05-31 06:10:30 UTC
Even though I do not live in a WH and even though I like to gank people - Hidden belts should be removed from the Anomaly scan results in W-Space.
00 has local to warn you, W-Space only has dscan ... if you dont need to scan people down in their mining ships its going to be meals on wheels.

Yes I love pirating, yes I love ransoming people - but I am also fair.
This mechanic in W-Space is.... nasty.
Josef Djugashvilis
#168 - 2013-05-31 07:15:29 UTC
Torrentula Chromus wrote:
I read a good amount of this thread and can't believe how greedy some people are. I hope half the ppl here quit cause your attitudes stink and would be doing eve a service by leaving. It a shame to see experienced players more worried about having a leg up over everyone else vs creating a game that is balanced for all players. These changes level the playing field for everyone. People are but hurt cause they can't farm the premium sites with ease. Good. Being new to this game I'm glad with all these changes. God forbid cpp make the game fair. I play the game for fun. It sucks when you have farmers taking all the good stuff because of a non intended trick. Now its even. We both put in some scanning time.


If you ask nicely, CCP may do away with skill progression all together so that everyone in Eve has the same ability to do everything from the day they start playing. That would be fair, would it not?

For me, if some folk have the ability and the desire to optimize-utilize any given Eve mechanic to gain an advantage over another player, then good for them I say.

Also, 'balanced' 'level playing field' and 'fair' are not what Eve is about, nor should it be.

This is not a signature.
Heinel Coventina
Doomheim
#169 - 2013-05-31 07:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinel Coventina
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:
Even though I do not live in a WH and even though I like to gank people - Hidden belts should be removed from the Anomaly scan results in W-Space.
00 has local to warn you, W-Space only has dscan ... if you dont need to scan people down in their mining ships its going to be meals on wheels.

Yes I love pirating, yes I love ransoming people - but I am also fair.
This mechanic in W-Space is.... nasty.




This is probably a first of many steps to promote combat ships playing alongside industrial ships.

For too long has fighting been restricted to gates. Everywhere else it's cat and mouse. In order to make people fight in space, you have to give them points of interests where people can expect to linger and where fighting can occur.

Ideally, some time in the future, this should shift null/wh priority targets to economical units in the form of ships, instead of everyone just turning on their modules on a POS then go watch netflix.