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Feedback for Hacking/Archaeology feature from 27/5/13 onward

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Author
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#81 - 2013-05-28 19:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
CCP Bayesian wrote:
For the people saying the 'loot pinata sucks' and the like could you vocalise the problems you have with it?

So far I've collated:
- It's not the way EVE has previously worked.
- Collision is a pain, both with the size of the Data Sites and the positioning of some containers.
- Picking can be difficult if you're not using a mouse.
- Picking can be difficult if you're blinded by the site contents.
- Loot haul seems low in comparison with how it was before.
- Losing cans feels bad, particular after the effort of having to hack the container. This makes it feel like a penalty.
- Not knowing what is any particular can so it feels bad not being able to make good choices.
- The 'bad loot' is far too bulky so it is excessively penalising as you have to stop and sort it out.


A copy and paste from another thread.

Brooks Puuntai wrote:


A shortish summery:

-It's terrible for anyone who is colorblind, has bad eye sight, or has slow hand to eye coordination(or is intoxicated).

-After finding the site then hacking the site, having to quickly click little green dots seems more of a punishment then a reward.

-It DOES NOT promote "Good" group game play. Scanning takes 1 person, hacking takes 1 person, looting promotes multiple? So pretty much you have to have your friends wait around only to grab cans for 10sec. Looting should be the least of the group activity, not the only.

-It doesn't fit Eve's design. Eve is not a real twitch based game, not to mention flight control is mostly point to point, not manual. Which means having to click to move the ship in a certain direction, while trying to chase a group of scattering cans, is a chore not entertainment.

I'm sure there are others, but in the end the overall mechanic is terrible. The feedback from the (vocal)majority who have tested it have stated it as well.


One thing I do have to commend CCP about, is there unrelenting stubbornness over a prototype feature that is almost universally disliked.

E: Also could you remove this thread from being stickied? It is jammed up with the rest of stickies which I'm sure many people ignore by this point. It will remain at the top, similar to the other one(this section isn't that active tbh).

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#82 - 2013-05-28 19:58:30 UTC
Question: Are the can names in reality completely irrelevant for grabbing the good loot? Just got a enhanced ward console from a scraps container.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#83 - 2013-05-28 20:28:20 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
Question: Are the can names in reality completely irrelevant for grabbing the good loot? Just got a enhanced ward console from a scraps container.

From what I can gather parts containers contain components for blueprints, data containers have blueprints and data cores, scrap containers have salvage and I have gotten a ASB box from one once I believe. I could be wrong though.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#84 - 2013-05-28 20:30:46 UTC
I got salvage from equipment and materials containers also.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#85 - 2013-05-28 20:31:19 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
......If we didn't care about your feedback I wouldn't be listing a whole bunch of things out, asking for your input and I wouldn't have been active in all the feedback threads on our feature.


There is another reason to be active in a feedback thread other than caring about the feedback. Its to make it look like you care so you can wave a "We Care!" flag.

How to tell the difference? By what actually gets deployed on June 4th. If its the same features as were on Sisi, then we know you are here "asking for input" for the one and only purpose of shutting people up, and you place zero value on the opinions of your customers. If the features have been changed to reflect the feedback we gave, then you are right and you are respecting to what we have to say and assuming it is important enough to change what you do.

Remember: We watch what you do, not what you say.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Naomi Hale
#86 - 2013-05-28 20:47:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is another reason to be active in a feedback thread other than caring about the feedback. Its to make it look like you care so you can wave a "We Care!" flag.

How to tell the difference? By what actually gets deployed on June 4th. If its the same features as were on Sisi, then we know you are here "asking for input" for the one and only purpose of shutting people up, and you place zero value on the opinions of your customers. If the features have been changed to reflect the feedback we gave, then you are right and you are respecting to what we have to say and assuming it is important enough to change what you do.

Remember: We watch what you do, not what you say.


Okay, first, that's a real creepy post right there. Second, They have only a week before Odyssey's launch, what do you want them to do? I've said before, I'll say again, accurate feedback won't come until they release it on TQ and have a larger sample size.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Naomi Hale
#87 - 2013-05-28 20:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Hale
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
You know, THIS is what I was expecting. Sure, the hacking minigame isn't all bad. (The pinata, however, IS.) I'd expect this to be how Archaeology should function. It would make RPers much more heppy, too. it's to bad you didn't make this your CSM platform, I'd have liquidated anyone who'd have run against you for free because of how much I like the idea.


But, I suspect then only you and I would be playing the game.

(As always, I'm saddened by how little response I get when I post mock-ups, concepts and ideas. Which leads me to believe they are terrible Sad feel free to laugh at my tears.)

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Heinel Coventina
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-05-28 20:57:41 UTC
Hmm, the dissidents seem to be blowing this quite out of proportion.

However, I think the concerns about the new exploration system being a framework for a feature, rather than an actual feature, is somewhat valid.

What is CCP's plan to introduce new players into exploration, a gameplay mechanic that has no parallels from other MMOs, hence unfamiliar, and,

What is CCP doing to mitigate disappointments during this transitional period between phasing out the old passive system and a highly integrated play style?
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-05-28 21:17:06 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is another reason to be active in a feedback thread other than caring about the feedback. Its to make it look like you care so you can wave a "We Care!" flag.

How to tell the difference? By what actually gets deployed on June 4th. If its the same features as were on Sisi, then we know you are here "asking for input" for the one and only purpose of shutting people up, and you place zero value on the opinions of your customers. If the features have been changed to reflect the feedback we gave, then you are right and you are respecting to what we have to say and assuming it is important enough to change what you do.

Remember: We watch what you do, not what you say.


Okay, first, that's a real creepy post right there. Second, They have only a week before Odyssey's launch, what do you want them to do? I've said before, I'll say again, accurate feedback won't come until they release it on TQ and have a larger sample size.


Most of this feedback has been being posted all month.
Naomi Hale
#90 - 2013-05-28 21:25:18 UTC
Raven Solaris wrote:
Most of this feedback has been being posted all month.

A month? No way, has it been that long since it hit Sisi? Or do you mean it's showing at fanfest... that's about a month ago right?

Anyway, it's only a week now, so asking for a radical change to happen in that time seems unfair.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Naomi Hale
#91 - 2013-05-28 21:31:29 UTC
People outside this thread still seem upbeat about it, Massively

Make of it what you will. Cough 'more user-friendly controls' cough excuse me bad cough Lol

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#92 - 2013-05-28 21:32:13 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Raven Solaris wrote:
Most of this feedback has been being posted all month.

A month? No way, has it been that long since it hit Sisi? Or do you mean it's showing at fanfest... that's about a month ago right?

Anyway, it's only a week now, so asking for a radical change to happen in that time seems unfair.


The overall exploration changes have been out for about a month, the hacking minigame and pinata about 2 weeks.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-05-28 21:35:38 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Raven Solaris wrote:
Most of this feedback has been being posted all month.

A month? No way, has it been that long since it hit Sisi? Or do you mean it's showing at fanfest... that's about a month ago right?

Anyway, it's only a week now, so asking for a radical change to happen in that time seems unfair.


Month since fanfest, think the Odyssey changes started hitting SiSi around the 8th.

Naomi Hale wrote:
People outside this thread still seem upbeat about it, Massively

Make of it what you will. Cough 'more user-friendly controls' cough excuse me bad cough Lol


Problems with the hacking minigame are few and far between, albeit it could stand to be less luck-based. People's problems are with the loot pinata, which that article fails to mention.
Kahns
Ixion Defence Systems
#94 - 2013-05-28 21:43:33 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Anyway, it's only a week now, so asking for a radical change to happen in that time seems unfair.

Fixing this doesn't require radical change in a week. I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Things CCP could do, off the top of my head:

  • Take out having to move to get the cans (aka, how it was described at fanfest)
  • get rid of loot pinatas and you get the loot if you solve the hacking within two tries
  • delay just the hacking minigame and cans for changes and leave the old sites for now (people would get over it, it's a free expansion)
  • Make the cans simply appear around you like old cans, you have to access them like old cans before they explode on a timer
  • delay the expansion (CCP only publishes quality and all that)
  • ship it as is but detail planned fixes and not just abandon the feature for some new winter theme

I'm not saying that all of these are great options, but saying that the only way to fix the problems brought up is to make radical changes in a week is a straw man argument.
Kahns
Ixion Defence Systems
#95 - 2013-05-28 21:48:22 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
People outside this thread still seem upbeat about it, Massively

Seriously... you know it's great and people love it because of a preview?
Naomi Hale
#96 - 2013-05-28 21:54:42 UTC
Kahns wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:
People outside this thread still seem upbeat about it, Massively

Seriously... you know it's great and people love it because of a preview?


It was supposed to be sarcasm (forums need a sarcasm button or font or something). I didn't mean everyone was upbeat but the author of that article certainly is (or paid to be). You seem overly confrontational... perhaps some calming tea or deep slow breaths?

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Naomi Hale
#97 - 2013-05-28 22:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Hale
Kahns wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:
Anyway, it's only a week now, so asking for a radical change to happen in that time seems unfair.

Fixing this doesn't require radical change in a week. I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Things CCP could do, off the top of my head:

  • Take out having to move to get the cans (aka, how it was described at fanfest)
  • get rid of loot pinatas and you get the loot if you solve the hacking within two tries
  • delay just the hacking minigame and cans for changes and leave the old sites for now (people would get over it, it's a free expansion)
  • Make the cans simply appear around you like old cans, you have to access them like old cans before they explode on a timer
  • delay the expansion (CCP only publishes quality and all that)
  • ship it as is but detail planned fixes and not just abandon the feature for some new winter theme

I'm not saying that all of these are great options, but saying that the only way to fix the problems brought up is to make radical changes in a week is a straw man argument.

Removing the 'Pinata' is a radical change, time and effort have gone into designing and creating it and you're asking them to throw it out before the majority of the player base have tried it. Players that treat EVE as a casual game, rather than invested in it like 'a second job'.

Look, I'm disappointed about the new exploration stuff, but I also know that expecting what I want to overrule the game's designers, programmers, artists and animators is unrealistic compared to the (potentially) thousands of players on TQ that may end up liking it.

(If, in a months time, we see a mass exodus of players from the game because of these features then feel free to send me an 'I told you so' eve-mail.)

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Kahns
Ixion Defence Systems
#98 - 2013-05-28 22:10:27 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
I just want to apologise as people seem to have misunderstood my previous post. I was not agreeing that we should ignore feedback and that wasn't what the poster I was quoting meant either. I was agreeing that we were not disheartened. If we didn't care about your feedback I wouldn't be listing a whole bunch of things out, asking for your input and I wouldn't have been active in all the feedback threads on our feature.

Sorry if I mistook you. I get now what you meant. And I do agree, Eve is great, CCP obviously cares, we appreciate you being on the forums at all, etc.

Just speaking for myself though, I think I was just somewhat frustrated because it feels like this was all kind of rammed into Singularity without enough time for any real meaningful feedback and iteration. If we're just here to make sure it doesn't functionally break, OK, but that kind of sucks in an MMO driven by players with an elected player council. On top of that, some of the problems seem like things that I can't imagine a tester, focus group or hell a programmer wouldn't catch (colorblind issues, getting stuck on stuff, getting loot worse than low level missions, you now have two tractor beams that work two completely different ways without reason or explanation, etc.)

CCP Bayesian wrote:
You seem overly confrontational... perhaps some calming tea or deep slow breaths?

Nah, I just care and refuse to blow smoke up people's asses. It's not great, what can I say? But sure, I'll stop hogging up the thread now, I've made my point as clear as I know how to Straight. CCP-- Please don't abandon this feature on the vine, I like exploration!
Kahns
Ixion Defence Systems
#99 - 2013-05-28 22:12:46 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
If, in a months time, we see a mass exodus of players from the game because of these features then feel free to send me an 'I told you so' eve-mail.


You loooooooove the strawman arguments Lol
Naomi Hale
#100 - 2013-05-28 22:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Hale
Kahns wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:
If, in a months time, we see a mass exodus of players from the game because of these features then feel free to send me an 'I told you so' eve-mail.


You loooooooove the strawman arguments Lol

But of course! He's my favourite character from 'The Wonderful Wizard of Oz' as I too lack a brain Big smile

The straw man argument being that a lot of people on this thread want the 'Pinata' loot removed? Yes I think I was addressing that.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.