Market Discussions

So first you say that unlisted stockpiles are waiting for the same (or higher) prices as you are (thus having no effect on your business model), and now you're saying that they've all cashed out now?

9 Months ago was when the build cost was changed. That volume spike was the people wanting to build stockpiles buying (take a look at the t1 battleship markets now, the BC markets a little while ago, or the Cruiser markets around December for some examples of this).

And, of course, you can do a rough integration of the various hub markets and compare it to the production volume data that CCP released and find that (assuming every procurer sold since a month after the patch when month-long builds came out of the oven is a procurer sold to an end-user and not to a resaler) there are assuredly enormous unlisted stockpiles.


We really aren't randomly beating on you, we're trying to explain why you are wrong in your analysis of this market. You're the one taking disagreement (and evidence that probably rises to the level of "definitive proof") as a personal attack.

The Procurer market will behave as you describe. It will rebound to current build costs. It just won't do it in the time frame you describe. Just like the t1 Cruisers (I'm looking at you Ospreys), the procurer will hover around some price until it finally starts exhausting some stockpiles and then, in fits and starts, it will start its slow climb. This will almost certainly take years given how few procurers/skiffs are used and lost.

I love how all this discussion assumes that mineral prices are fixed. Any trade or "investment" in this market will require locking up capital for a significant period of time. During that time there is significant risk from mineral price changes.

I can confirm that my stockpile is unlisted, and based off the numbers thrown around I should be able to hold the price down for a long time.

Good luck

There were at a minimum 500,000 procurers built with the old production costs. What do you think happened to all those procurers? Even if I give you a very generous 5000 used up per month, that is still 8 years before the stockpile is depleted.

I know for a fact that there are still very large stockpiles of procurers out there.

What if someone .01s you? Do you buy out their procurers for 13.99999m?

I'm an investor, if I sell something I sell it at that price, I do not look at the .01 changes, those are daytraders never making a profit over the long run, in real life not different as in a game, but please don't freak out on this comment now, there are good books about this topic trust me

I did produce a lot of procurers and I'm not angry about this in the least. If some newb wants to buy them all up for profit, he is welcome to try.

While you might be able to sell a handful of Procurers at 14m ISK for years, I doubt you would be able to expand it to work on a mass scale. It would take hundreds of billions of ISK if not trillions to buy up all the excess procurers to keep the price close to current build cost. Then it would take a decade to sell them all off.

The difference between a retriever and a procurer, and why the price normalised on one faster than the other, is fairly clear in the devblogs.

People overestimated how many pilots would fly the procurer, as unsurprisingly people chose yield, or hold over tank.

Run a procurer through EFT with max skills and see what tank you can get, and then do the same with the retriever or covetor

Fearful != Waiting until the price is above build cost.

HAahhahaaa hahahaa aa aaahhhhhhhhh , best irony overload in ages.

Thanks for at least putting a smile on my face there.

check out this site http://zkillboard.com/ search procurer go on losses then on history, you see 800 die each month just on this killboard, I assume that not all are showed there, so my prediction is 2000 die each month because, the manufacturing market was 2000 units every month consistent over a year before the changes have been announced

as we see more players come to the game the number will go up, I also think that more people use those procurers for ninja mining in low or nullsec because they are cheap at the moment, so I'm still not convinced, also no procurers are produced at the moment so all additional procurers who blow up are directly used from the overstock, 2 years max i would say, and the prices go up before that, but lets see how it turns out...

Harry,

The vast majority of gankers have their API automatically loading up killboards these days. Killboards are accurate. Its 800 a month.

Yes, a proportion of new players are stupid, stupid miners who will get some mining barges ganked doing ninja mining in losec, until they realise what a totally dumbshit idea it is and stop (or - if they are vaguely intelligent - do it in a freaking wormhole that has a surplus of ABCs and an acute lack of roaming gangs).

Speaking of really, really dumb people, theres also the 'I mined it myself so its free' manufacturers, and some of them will be building procurers - because anyone dumb enough to think minerals they mined are free is also dumb enough to buy a procurer blueprint and make them. My guess is we'd probably get a couple of hundred procurers a month built by these guys.

So .... feel free to buy peoples pre-patch procurer stock off them. But dont expect a lot of investors.

Note I had the same argument with someone a couple of months back about logi frigs.

If you do want to go long on a T1 cruiser, look for popular ones that get blown up a lot, and are still available in bulk sales. Read patch notes and figure if they are going to get buffed, or at least not nerfed, and then go long on them.