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Remap availaibility

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#41 - 2013-05-26 11:29:12 UTC
If you allow people to remap anytime they want, then there is really no point in having attributes or implants.

It's all about risk and reward. I take a risk flying a pvp clone with only +3 implants or one with two +4's in the skills I'm training. I take a risk in training for an orca over a dictor in that one is more useful to one corp than another.

I like having choice in this game that defines my character. I plan out what I want to do and train for it. If I have remaps, then I plan around that. You get one once a year. If you can't plan for that, then your best bet is to just buy another character.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#42 - 2013-05-26 11:29:13 UTC
Robus Muvila wrote:
As for skill respec's that doesn't even warrant a response. You are bad and should feel bad.


You're a Goon FFS - you don't have the right to judge anyone.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-05-26 11:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Robus Muvila wrote:
As for skill respec's that doesn't even warrant a response. You are bad and should feel bad.


You're a Goon FFS - you don't have the right to judge anyone.

You do realise goons would probably be the biggest beneficieries of a skill respec more than anyone? And even they are telling you it would be a bad idea.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#44 - 2013-05-26 11:35:08 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
You do realise goons would probably be the biggest beneficieries of a skill respec more than anyone? And even they are telling you it would be a bad idea.


You do realise that's bollocks? Everyone would benefit. Everyone. CCP just need to do it. I just don't get the resistance. If you don't want to use the ability to respec then don't use it. Simples.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Danni stark
#45 - 2013-05-26 11:36:09 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
wrong, just because you haven't met some one doesn't mean they don't affect you. i doubt you mined all the minerals, and built all your own ships and modules. did you? some one else did, that you've never met, that just affected your game...
shocking, huh?


And? I can buy anything I like at any time, whether I have the skills to use it or not. I don't accept that POV I'm afraid.

Quote:
yes attributes still affect the rate at which you learn, which can be changed at will so they may as well not exist and just give every one the optimal sp/hour for all skills.


Stupid argument is stupid. You still need to invest time to gain the SPs in the first place. If you can't grasp the clear and logical argument then I feel sorry for you.


doesn't matter if you accept it or not, other players you have never met affect your game. guess what, if they didn't then you couldn't "buy anything i like at any time" because they wouldn't be there for you to purchase.

how is it a stupid argument? that's the fact of what would happen. when you allow people to change their remap any time they feel like it, they will be able to train skills at the highest level of sp/hour regardless of the skill or what attributes they require. at that point attributes become redundant since they will essentially no longer affect skill training times.

just because you don't like the truth, doesn't stop it being the truth.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#46 - 2013-05-26 11:36:17 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
My argument is exactly the same as CCPs.

Suck it up princesses and be grateful you can do this at all. We will not be getting the ability to do this whenever we want because it is not how this game works. Live with your choices.


Jesus. Pull your head out of the sand. Just because it's that way now, doesn't mean it can't or won't change. If CCP had any sense, they'd recognise what a massive additional revenue stream this could be. They should run a time limited trial and see what response they get. I am quietly confident that there'd be a massive take up.



They obviously think the design integrity of their game is more important than a temporary additional revenue stream, given they have run a subscription based mmo for over 10 years now I would be inclined to trust their judgement .
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-05-26 11:37:02 UTC
Robus Muvila wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:

It's more about being able to do more stuff solo that you could only normally do in a group.


And that's why remaps and **** will never be on demand. Remaps on demand encourage compartmentalized thinking and never having to plan beyond your next skill. The whole point of EvE being a single shard world is that everything interacts with everything else, the fact that this game has consequences that you can't just grind away, or buy away with whatever is one of the few things that gives weight to your choices and makes them matter. It's like a parent making a kid brush their teeth. In the end, it's for your own good.

As for skill respec's that doesn't even warrant a response. You are bad and should feel bad.





Remaps, I don't really see an issue there as it only effects the speed at which you can train. There's other factors that can also do that, like for instance I don't use 3rd party programs to plan my training plan which means I'm probably not training in the most efficient way, but I prefer to do it myself. I chose to use +4s instead of +5s even though I can afford to use +5s.




As for skill point reallocations I don't feel bad because I didn't bring them into the conversation.


As for skill point reallocation I see it as bad from an RP perspective. I also see it bad for those that invested heavily in manufacturing/trading and do that as a career within EVE. But I can see why people would want to reinvest as I've know people start off in industry then switch to combat. Also those that buy characters will more than likely want to change some skills.


But to recap:

I don't see any real issue with allowing remaps for PLEX but I do see some real issues for not allowing skill point reallocation. Although I'm sure some people wouldn't want to hear that.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#48 - 2013-05-26 11:37:53 UTC
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
They obviously think the design integrity of their game is more important than a temporary additional revenue stream, given they have run a subscription based mmo for over 10 years now I would be inclined to trust their judgement .


How is it temporary? People join all the time. People buy additional accounts all the time. There's nothing temporary about it...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#49 - 2013-05-26 11:38:16 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
After all, WoW has this service too. Since 2007 even. Why not in EVE?

Just re-quoting for prosperity. I'll let the quote speak for itself. :)

Blink

Remove standings and insurance.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#50 - 2013-05-26 11:39:53 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
I don't see any real issue with allowing remaps for PLEX but I do see some real issues for not allowing skill point reallocation. Although I'm sure some people wouldn't want to hear that.


That's your opinion and you're welcome to it; in the same way I am welcome to mine. Ultimately it's pointless arguing in circles, CCP will either do it or not - it really doesn't matter what we think.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#51 - 2013-05-26 11:43:05 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
They obviously think the design integrity of their game is more important than a temporary additional revenue stream, given they have run a subscription based mmo for over 10 years now I would be inclined to trust their judgement .


How is it temporary? People join all the time. People buy additional accounts all the time. There's nothing temporary about it...



Because it would undermine the idea of the game itself, I seriously doubt this would produce a long-term increase in revenue, quite the opposite.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#52 - 2013-05-26 11:43:34 UTC
Robus Muvila wrote:
2 reasons.

1) WoW has "Levels" a "Level cap" and thusly FINITE AMOUNT OF SKILL POINT PER PLAYER. As in, you get to a point where you cannot gain any more skills and would be stuck with an unchanging characters for the rest of eternity

2) By the time you get to the point where you're wanting to Respec, you're doing instanced raids and battlegrounds. Playing locked off parts of the game that reset at the end and have no impact outside of the instance.

Stop being reasonable. This thread does not deserve it.

Remove standings and insurance.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-05-26 11:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:
I don't see any real issue with allowing remaps for PLEX but I do see some real issues for not allowing skill point reallocation. Although I'm sure some people wouldn't want to hear that.


That's your opinion and you're welcome to it; in the same way I am welcome to mine. Ultimately it's pointless arguing in circles, CCP will either do it or not - it really doesn't matter what we think.

CCP won't implement respecs for PLEX, for that we can be certain. Remaps for PLEX on the other hand is possible, but I can see why there would be some resistance as we already have implants, and adding remaps would perhaps turn the game a further notch towards paying to win.

Also I'm not sure of the economics of it, but if goons for example are using their in game isk to purchase more PLEX for this, then it could have a detrimental effect on the PLEX market. IE prices would rocket for people who use it to fund their accounts. Your creating more demand but same amount of supply.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#54 - 2013-05-26 11:48:18 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
just because you don't like the truth, doesn't stop it being the truth.


But you haven't posted the truth. Do you even grasp how it works? Regardless of how ever many remaps one might do, there will still be skills to learn and skills require SPs. So they will hardly become useless. Now, less hysteria please.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Danni stark
#55 - 2013-05-26 11:49:48 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
just because you don't like the truth, doesn't stop it being the truth.


But you haven't posted the truth. Do you even grasp how it works? Regardless of how ever many remaps one might do, there will still be skills to learn and skills require SPs. So they will hardly become useless. Now, less hysteria please.


considering i just pointed out how it works, and why plex'd remaps make it irrelevant. obviously i do.

perhaps you should read my post instead of posting "LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU" over and over. it's somewhat juvenile.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#56 - 2013-05-26 11:52:11 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
perhaps you should read my post instead of posting "LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU" over and over. it's somewhat juvenile.


Grow up, grasp the facts and stop posting crap. Or go and put your manpon back in, whichever you are most capable of.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#57 - 2013-05-26 11:52:39 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Also I'm not sure of the economics of it, but if goons for example are using their in game isk to purchase more PLEX for this, then it could have a detrimental effect on the PLEX market. IE prices would rocket for people who use it to fund their accounts. Your creating more demand but same amount of supply.


Except you can buy PLEX at any time for IRL cash from CCP. So it only becomes an issue for those gypsies too poor/tight to spend real money.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#58 - 2013-05-26 11:56:06 UTC
I like the way you've decided that the cost of a skill respec should be 1 plex. How did you figure out that price? What if I say the price should be 1000 plexes? Would you still think it's a good idea?

I'll answer for you; No, you wouldn't. Why? Because you can't afford 1000 plexes for a skill respec. There are plenty of other players who can afford it though, so why shouldn't the service be available to them? Oh because it's not fair, only the very rich players get to use the service and it gives them an unfair advantage over the poor players.

From your response (the one which I very kindly took the liberty of posting for you) we can see that you only think it's a good idea if the service is available to you. In short, you only want this service because it satisfies your own selfish desires. You don't care about how it might damage the integrity of the game, the economy or player politics. You don't care if it will ruin the gameplay for every other player as long as you can fly a shiny Machariel to run your level 4s because you're starting to get bored of your Rattlesnake. You should be ashamed.

Oh god.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#59 - 2013-05-26 11:57:23 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
Riot Girl wrote:
I'll answer for you; No, you wouldn't. Why? Because you can't afford 1000 plexes for a skill respec. There are plenty of other players who can afford it though, so why shouldn't the service be available to them? Oh because it's not fair, only the very rich players get to use the service and it gives them an unfair advantage over the poor players.


How is that any different from real life? Some people are poor, others are rich. Those who have money have more options than those who don't. Shock, horror.

Quote:
You don't care about how it might damage the integrity of the game, the economy or player politics.


That's not true. I just don't accept that it would have anything like the impact you harpies seem to think it would. As for player politics, I couldn't give a **** in all honesty. That any of you think you are important makes me laugh - such ego. Pathetic.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#60 - 2013-05-26 11:59:29 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
How is that any different from real life?

How about the part where you can't respec SP in real life. Minor detail.

Oh god.