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Chimera/Phoenix what's wrong and how can they be fixed?
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#21 - 2013-05-28 00:41:39 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
you dont really fly a chimera do you?

Do you ever start a post without an attack? You know it is okay to just disagree once in a while. Or even shock people by just being constructive without being hostile. I don't doubt that you have more experience than me, though I do claim it differs (eg. we've never been in the same fleet).

I do currently own a Chimera, and have used it. I also have an Archon pilot and a Thanatos pilot. I don't have a Nid' pilot yet.

Jack Miton wrote:
the only thing youre right about is that shield tanking takes slightly more cap.

1500 GJ vs. 1350 GJ = 11% more capacitor is "slightly more"? Your scale must differ from mine, as I consider that significant.

Jack Miton wrote:
both fit 3 remote reps/transfers and 1 cap transfer.

Try to fit a Pantheon style 5 reps on both, or even 4+1. I could never get it to work on a Chimera.

With 3+1 a local shield booster is out of the question (at least the last time I tried to fit that it was - I haven't tried since), and the best I could manage was 2+1 for triage. I'll have to try again this evening.

Jack Miton wrote:
now, start throwing isk at both, like WH people are want to do, and see what happens.
chimera gets WAY better than the archon with high levels of pimp in all stats.

I don't think it is practical to balance assuming pimped ships. I suspect CCP might state the same.

Beyond faction relays on a Chimera, I never pimped a w-space carrier. I don't doubt you've run into some expensive Piñatas in w-space given my years of living there. Some people are nutz, others are rich and nutz.
Hamatitio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-05-28 02:05:08 UTC
Reduce the CPU required by capital shield modules (both local and remote).

This will be a help across the board for capital class shield ships...


The Phoenix is a terrible dread, unless you are bashing a minmatar POS.
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#23 - 2013-05-28 02:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
double post. Whelp!!
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#24 - 2013-05-28 02:44:12 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
say what?
chimera has the best cap of any carrier so not really sure what youre on about.


Next try to fit a full rack of shield transporters (3 and a local rep is not very practical, which is another reason why the Dominion trailer is wacked). The Archon can have a full rack of remote armor reps.

you dont really fly a chimera do you? the only thing youre right about is that shield tanking takes slightly more cap.
comparing a standard archon triage fit to a standard chimera triage fit:
tank is identical (3 slot tank, same meta level)
cap recharge is identical (+852/s)
both fit 3 remote reps/transfers and 1 cap transfer.

only difference is that the chimera needs to fit 2 meta high slots due to CPU where the archon doesnt.

now, start throwing isk at both, like WH people are want to do, and see what happens.
chimera gets WAY better than the archon with high levels of pimp in all stats.

The chimera, without any skills factored in, actually gets better cap recharge rate but due to low cap amount, it still caps out faster than the archon while doing pretty much the same thing. You end up burning considerably more cap for the same effect. Not to talk about having to nerf shield boost amount by 30% or more just to end up barely cap stable. No matter what you do, It just doesn't get the job done like the archon and it was much worse before the slight buff which was not too long ago.
There's one thing we can both agree on, though, and that is the fact that the chimera gets much better if you bling it out but the same thing goes for any other ship.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#25 - 2013-05-28 12:57:21 UTC
Pimped Chimera's can have some pretty epic stats, the one our corp used to have had an insane tank and neuts just weren't an issue.
My only wish to make it more popular would be some more CPU to make it easier to fit, I've never ran out of cpu/grid on an Archon fit, whilst you have to be careful on cpu for most chimera fits I can recall ever trying. (granted I've not looked in a while)
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-05-28 15:59:33 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
chimera is mostly fine, just needs like, 5% more CPU.

And less cap transfer dependency since it's so easy to disrupt for a ship of this size and value, but it's only my opinion.

say what?
chimera has the best cap of any carrier so not really sure what youre on about.




As I just said above I'm not very used to fly it and this is the feeling I get with, most probably because my fit it's not officer/faction stuff or even a good fit+I'm not pretending to know how to fly it perfectly, just a feeling and probably a wrong one but I'd like to read from someone who thinks these are perfect like you seem to be, explain a little better this ship fittings solo etc.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#27 - 2013-05-28 18:16:18 UTC
Can someone post a reference fit for chimera to make comparisons on?
DJ Sexman
GinintoniX
#28 - 2013-05-28 19:03:06 UTC
Phoenix, I don't know. Across the board missile damage bonus would be nice. Beyond that, I'd love to have the torps' velocity significantly increased. Same max range but putting them at the level of the citadel cruise speed would be cool. It's just annoying when you have missiles out and you leave siege, they don't do siege damage.

Fixing citadel missiles vs. other caps would be #1 on the list though.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#29 - 2013-07-31 00:32:24 UTC
Citadel missiles, cpu issues, and the lack of capital shield buffer mods. I think that sums it up.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#30 - 2013-07-31 01:22:59 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Citadel missiles, cpu issues, and the lack of capital shield buffer mods. I think that sums it up.


So basicly, Tank, Gank, and Fitting all suck for the Phoenix. lol.

I didn't go to such lengths to analyze the ship statistics. For me the hull was just plain Fugly.
I can't be paying subs to fly ugly ships!
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#31 - 2013-07-31 02:08:01 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Citadel missiles, cpu issues, and the lack of capital shield buffer mods. I think that sums it up.


So basicly, Tank, Gank, and Fitting all suck for the Phoenix. lol.

I didn't go to such lengths to analyze the ship statistics. For me the hull was just plain Fugly.
I can't be paying subs to fly ugly ships!

Application and passive tank to be exact, since shield dreads can't increase their buffer without losing all of their dps. And don't forget that nanofiber nidhoggurs speed tank citadel missiles.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-08-01 08:51:47 UTC
Ideally for the phoenix:

10% Boost in DPS(Should Offset the need for TPs and **** on capital size Targets)
50% Boost in Missile velocity


Make it a 10% damage bonus for kinetic 5% for the rest.

Now yes this would make it on paper completely blow away the moros. In reality it might be on equal grounds against other caps. A bit better at pos bashing and still utter **** against subcaps.


That would at least make it somewhat usable.


Chimera

Basically just increasing the CPU by 150 should do it.

Shield reps are they way they are because of where they land in the cycles. Even with that said they should be able to fit a 3 shield transfer 2x energy transfer like the archon.
W1ndex
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-08-02 15:16:07 UTC
Moros Pilot checking in:

I do not know why the phoenix doesn't get a dual weapon system bonus. Bonus Capital Hybirds and Capital missiles. Since the biggest issue is the capital missiles. Perhaps offer selectable damage to the missile and add hybird bonuses as well. This would make the phoenix desirable. I would cross train right now actually.

And the Chimera like many have said before me needs to be able to fit out a full shield tank and shield transporters etc. It is lacking on fitting room just like the nid.


Phoenix:
Bonus to Cap Hybirds and bonus all dmg type cap missiles

Chimera:
Fitting room to actually setup something that makes sense.
Ned Plantagenet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-08-05 13:01:26 UTC
Chimera

I agree with aextra mid slot just so I can have a dcu without losing DPS. As of its CPU is be happy with a 3% bonus per level or 150. But if not guess that means risk a rig slot/ low slot/ or get a implant. for a CPU upgrade. But a t2 CPU upgrade would be a little over kill. So guess but a CPU implant in and there you go fitting solution solved.

As of the Phoenix idk what I can say since Idont fly a dread.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-08-06 03:26:51 UTC
W1ndex wrote:
Moros Pilot checking in:

I do not know why the phoenix doesn't get a dual weapon system bonus. Bonus Capital Hybirds and Capital missiles. Since the biggest issue is the capital missiles. Perhaps offer selectable damage to the missile and add hybird bonuses as well. This would make the phoenix desirable. I would cross train right now actually.

And the Chimera like many have said before me needs to be able to fit out a full shield tank and shield transporters etc. It is lacking on fitting room just like the nid.


Phoenix:
Bonus to Cap Hybirds and bonus all dmg type cap missiles

Chimera:
Fitting room to actually setup something that makes sense.


So they just scrapped the 2 weapon system dread and now they should make another one? Didn't they change the Nalf because it was a POS idea to have dual weapon system bonus?

Fix the missile system. You can't have a weapon system reliant on a form of EWAR if many of it's target will be immune to it. Either change the explosion velocity/radius to more manageable level OR make it so the required EWAR can actually be applied on the target.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-08-06 04:55:41 UTC
Ned Plantagenet wrote:
Chimera
I agree with aextra mid slot just so I can have a dcu without losing DPS. As of its CPU is be happy with a 3% bonus per level or 150. But if not guess that means risk a rig slot/ low slot/ or get a implant. for a CPU upgrade. But a t2 CPU upgrade would be a little over kill. So guess but a CPU implant in and there you go fitting solution solved.

you absolutely cannot give the chimera an extra midslot... would make it LOL OP.

CPU wise it needs 100 more CPU at L5 skills. (lets you fit a 4 slot T2 tank, meta 0 caotal mods, 3 shield transfers, 1 cap transfer.)

There is no Bob.

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Ned Plantagenet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-08-06 10:27:48 UTC
Lol I meant low slot.
Galen Draz
Legion of Fallen Soldiers
#38 - 2013-08-07 21:20:25 UTC
remove all penalties from the citadel torps when sieged and make their explosion radius 20km so that those torps
will do full damage to everyone inside 20km from the impact point. Phoenix has been **** so long... it needs to
be stupidly overpowered now!!! Evil
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#39 - 2013-08-07 21:26:24 UTC
Galen Draz wrote:
remove all penalties from the citadel torps when sieged and make their explosion radius 20km so that those torps
will do full damage to everyone inside 20km from the impact point. Phoenix has been **** so long... it needs to
be stupidly overpowered now!!! Evil

That's not how explosion radius works.
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#40 - 2013-08-07 21:34:31 UTC
What they need is AOE damage, like 20% of the damage is applied to anything 10km around where the torpedoes hit. Twisted
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