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Crime & Punishment

 
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Miner Bumping, Ganking and the activities of James 315 and the New Order of Highsec.

First post
Author
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2013-09-10 00:55:54 UTC
kalyte Sinulf wrote:
Opinion from young miner.

I think this "Order" is just a bunch of fat guys with little wieners, who want to have a huge banana so they could show off on the New Eden world.

I got ganked by "Order" for no reason, I checked the rules and it was none of them, so it looks like they will suicide on all miners just because you are miner, you have a mining barge and you have been spotted on Asteroids belt. I think whole idea which James 315 created is long gone and those little wieners who fly todays New Eden are just trying to hide them self in James 315 shadow so they could suicide on miners and later on send them an email saying "I did it!" I don't see any good here, speaking from players side, games economic side, New Eden world side and etc.

So stop saying that whole this circus is a good thing, as I personally think this is just one of the ways to cut down the number of new players who will quit after getting poped with their first mining barge on asteroids belt.


Its literally the very first rule.

Also, I'm big boned (just not where it counts apparently)

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#202 - 2013-09-10 05:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
kalyte Sinulf wrote:
Sausage and weight related insults as a result of being ganked

Did you have a permit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#203 - 2013-09-10 05:45:39 UTC
Quite frankly, I'm alarmed at the relentless genocide against unarmed asteroids. I sincerely thank the New Order for putting these racist miners back in their place.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-09-10 07:29:55 UTC
kalyte Sinulf wrote:

I got ganked by "Order" in a completely untanked ship.


There is your reason.
Khemax
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#205 - 2013-09-10 09:30:38 UTC
Blatant self promoting

Posting on an alt to promote yourself is lame at best, and this is just a pathetic attempt.

0/10
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#206 - 2013-09-10 13:13:17 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
^^

Do what?

Lol...

Football, dude. American or otherwise, it doesn't matter. Whole nations drop what they're doing to warship at the alter of their national teams.

Other sports as well, such as cricket. Basketball. Baseball. The temples raised to sport are vast and costly, but attendance is huge and fevrent. We raise our children up in worship of the heoros and prophets of sport, and sacrifice mightily of our earnings and time in service to the Gods of sport. Tell me that that is not a functional description of religion. Go ahead... I dare ya.



Ahhh ok.... wow... slow on the uptake I guess... I get it now though Pirate

Now... where can I join the church of Bacon, and does this come with a tax exempt status?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2013-09-11 00:59:39 UTC
Unknowen 1217B wrote:
So tell me little kids (James 315 and the New Order of Highsec), where is challenge of destroying a ship that can't fight back. I mean really, I understand the whold thing eve is not safe, but what you are doing is nothing no more then beating someone in RL that's tied up. And the whole 10m permit thing makes me laugh so hard I pass out.

Soon my main and corp will be heading your way so we can laugh when your ships go boom boom Lol



To be honest I think they will welcome your arrival. The Cats are suicide ships, cheap to fit and cheap to buy. Head on over to their page and read the blog (Suggest Bing's in the forum) more than one alliance has been shut down, for trying this, and they (the order) enjoy the fight.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#208 - 2013-09-11 19:43:50 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
^^

Do what?

Lol...

Football, dude. American or otherwise, it doesn't matter. Whole nations drop what they're doing to warship at the alter of their national teams.

Other sports as well, such as cricket. Basketball. Baseball. The temples raised to sport are vast and costly, but attendance is huge and fevrent. We raise our children up in worship of the heoros and prophets of sport, and sacrifice mightily of our earnings and time in service to the Gods of sport. Tell me that that is not a functional description of religion. Go ahead... I dare ya.


What I will tell you is that the negation of 'false' is not 'real', but 'true'.

Fine. There are true faiths, then. See previous examples for evidence.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#209 - 2013-09-11 19:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
kalyte Sinulf wrote:

"I fail-fit my barges, and they die. Insults all around!"

(parphrased by Yours Truly, in service of clarity)

See, there's your problem right there:

1) Failing to fit your barges like a proper Asteroid-Killer should. Prima Facie CODE violation.
(I especially like the feeble dual-tank on the Venture. First time I've ever seen that combo!)

2) Failure to take responsibility for one's actions. No one fit those hulls but you. There are tools and resources out there that could allow you to at least approximate a proper fit, if only you'd use them.



Next steps:
1) Take responsiblity for your actions. Don't blame the shark for biting the crippled fish; learn how to swim, and the sharks will bite something else. (Hint: You're going to bleed some before you learn)

2) Learn how to fit your ships, and don't get greedy. You're young, it's OK to start with 'young'-type hulls. Jumping into the deep end is only for those willing to accept the consequences of swimming with the sharks. Which you appear to not be so-willing. (Hint: Get a Procurer, and google for "Procurer Fitting." It ain't sexy, but it works)

3) Above all else: Never fly what you can't afford to lose.
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
#210 - 2013-09-12 18:22:04 UTC
kalyte Sinulf wrote:
I got ganked by "Order" for no reason, I checked the rules and it was none of them, so it looks like they will suicide on all miners just because you are miner, you have a mining barge and you have been spotted on Asteroids belt. I think whole idea which James 315 created is long gone and those little wieners who fly todays New Eden are just trying to hide them self in James 315 shadow so they could suicide on miners and later on send them an email saying "I did it!" I don't see any good here, speaking from players side, games economic side, New Eden world side and etc.

So stop saying that whole this circus is a good thing, as I personally think this is just one of the ways to cut down the number of new players who will quit after getting poped with their first mining barge on asteroids belt.


Ventures are dirt cheap, even compared to Procurer, the cheapest of all the barges. This makes Venture the perfect ship for excursions into Low-sec, NPC/Sovereignty Null-sec, and J-Space (Wormholes), on account of Rule #1 of Eve: Never fly what you cannot afford to lose. They're so cheap, the game will GIVE newbies Ventures for free by doing the tutorial missions; there are 12 sets of tutorial missions and you can do ALL of them regardless of which one you were assigned to by Aura.

This cheapness also means ganking with a catalyst is not at all profitable, so if a gankalyst pops a Venture, it's more likely to prove a message (that NO ONE is safe), to test a brand new ganker for readiness as they are lower on skills than the guys who pop the bigger barges, a competing corp trying to monopolize a highsec asteroid/comet field, or a ganker found that a module or cargo in the ship is well worth the gank attempt (so do not put blue/purple mods, even tank, on a Venture. If you get faction loot from rare rat spawns, dock the loot as soon as you get it).

Avoiding a gank is fairly easy. Watch the local, learn the Direction Scanner (dscan for short), and bug in to a station when you see known gankers or destroyers. Dscan is very useful, and if you go out into more dangerous space where CONCORD will not avenge you, it becomes as necessary as a well-configured Overview, if not more, especially in J-Space where you don't even get Local channel to tell you there are hostiles afoot. This is likely the fish swimming step Plastic refers to. Situational awareness means the gankers will recognize you're not an easy prey, and so they'll go after an easier target if there is one. He is correct; you will lose ships befre you've mastered the Dscan; I've lost quite a few myself for some failure or other related to using that feature.

Procurer is an excellent barge, plenty of tank and not terribly behind the Coveter in terms of yield. Its low ore hold means you'll be making more trips to the station, but that ore hold is so low because the ship's armored up like a cruiser, with very nice shield generators for a "civilian" craft. Procurer has plenty of mid slots to support a good shield-based tank, and two lows can fit a Damage Control Unit (the best piece of hardware you can put on something you don't want exploding, regardless of whether you use armor or shields to prevent boom) and either a MLU or some additional defensive piece.

My current ore Proc is not the best Proc tank, but it has just 2 points shy of 59k ehp against the common antimatter rounds fielded by a Catalyst. I can do better, hitting 72k if I swap out a rig, the med shield healer, and my MLU. And that's just with Tech1/Meta<4 stuff. However, given an untanked Mackinaw for me has 12.5k ehp, it's clear that given a choice between my proc and a typically-fit Exhumer, a ganker will take the juicier target and leave me alone.

Plastic Psycho himself had gone on record on these forums (I don't remember which thread) saying he leaves the Procurer alone when he ganks. The New Order regularly ganks Barges, but even they haven't got a posted kill of a suicide gank on a Proc; the only suicide gank related to a Procurer on James' blog is ironically when the barge suicide ganked the New Order (and failed miserably). More often, the NO used the Procs themselves as scouts and fleet warping beacons for their gankers (who are -10 sec status and have to move fast when in High-sec, and stay in the station until they're ready to gank because of faction police). Note: they do have enough guys that they CAN kill a Proc and post it on James' blog to show rebels that no barge is safe, but they tend to prefer cost-effective ganking, by using those same ships to kill more of the more expensive barges and exhumers, thus dealing more economic damage with the same ship cost to them.

As far as barges go with never flying what you can't afford, Procs fit nicely there, as their hull and preferred modules are cheaper than those of the others. Each strip miner cost 1m+ isk, while tank modules are dirt cheap. You don't need high meta premium editions of a DCU, just the regular Tech 1 or a low meta will do just fine. Tanking for ganks is a balancing act between cost and defense. You want a very high cost-effectiveness when fitting tank, so you have the defense to be a pain in the butt for gankers to kill before CONCORD arrives, but are too cheap for the amount of gankers necessary to kill you to be able to get anything from you.

Above all, don't antagonize the gankers. Making yourself a target by annoying them enough will make them decide to gank you regardless of what you're flying, simply to prove a point. Civility can be just an effective tank as all the shield tank modules on a Proc, as that keeps any consideration of you as a target purely on a cost-effectiveness basis. Even after a gank, civility will serve you far better than rage.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#211 - 2013-09-12 18:45:20 UTC
Tydeth Gilitae wrote:
Overall some good advice

You don't have to stay docked to avoid being ganked, you just have to make sure that you're harder to gank than the other guys in the belt.

The day every miner fits a proper tank, doesn't AFK or bot and accepts Eve is a harsh multiplayer game where pretty much anything (currently) goes, is the day James and his merry gang of mischievous types (♥ you guys) hang up their catalysts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
#212 - 2013-09-12 20:16:12 UTC
True, you do not have to stay docked, but for those who don't fit tank, or just want to be on the safe side regarding their cargo thus far if they see enough hostiles to theoretically break their tank (6+ gankers could probably break a Proc), docking works quite well, even if at least just to stow away your contents so you won't have as much value in your ship should you head back out and their scouts scan you. That way, even if they break your ship, you still made a bit more progress than if you hadn't docked even briefly.

Docking also works as standard MO for non-combatants in Null-sec (see any complaint thread about AFK Cloaking), or for switching out the mining barge for a combatant ship.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#213 - 2013-09-12 20:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Tydeth Gilitae wrote:


Plastic Psycho himself had gone on record on these forums (I don't remember which thread) saying he leaves the Procurer alone when he ganks.

Is true. I don't normally gang-up when I go hunting, and even a modestly-fit Procurer can break my teeth. OTOH, I've gleefully burned Covetors - Which cost a LOT more. (edit: About three times as much)

Quote:
As far as barges go with never flying what you can't afford, Procs fit nicely there, as their hull and preferred modules are cheaper than those of the others.
Roughly 20-24 11M ISK without fittings. Much more than a Venture of course, but infinitely more survivable too.

And yes, I've sent my mining alt into belts to scope out the scene. You can fit a covert targetting module and a ship scanner in the mids and still have room for a decent tank AND actively mine at the same time. Great cover. Hint: Not all your fellow miners have hearts of gold. Maybe that Procurer is just a cautious miner. Maybe he's a Spaiiii!


Quote:
Above all, don't antagonize the gankers. Making yourself a target by annoying them enough will make them decide to gank you regardless of what you're flying, simply to prove a point. Civility can be just an effective tank as all the shield tank modules on a Proc, as that keeps any consideration of you as a target purely on a cost-effectiveness basis. Even after a gank, civility will serve you far better than rage.
Seriously. I've 'Blue-Listed' some of my victims because they had great attitudes. And I've 'Red-Listed' others.

If you ask me, civily, after a gank what your mistakes were that lead to hot plasma death, I'll tell you how to be better.

Edited: Corrected my market memory.
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#214 - 2013-10-06 16:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiwha
Hit approach to the asteroid and you won't get bumped out of range.


Holy **** I replied in the wrong thread. CCP, Sorry for the necro.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Em Carebear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#215 - 2013-12-13 03:34:07 UTC
In 2008 the General Assembly of the United Nations stood against the ongoing torture of the group the Nazi called, "Life unworthy of living". In real life I work to help that group throw off the shackles of torture. I have to help because I'm one of them. Working to end my suffering put me in a unique position.

For example. Basically "The Order" is a protection racket, as would be run by the mafia. A shakedown, plain and simple.

The trouble is, there's an except. As in, its a shakedown, except, the shakedown has been dressed up as a social movement where enlightened pvp'ers are going to "help" lowlife miners better themselves. Here's the link:
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html

I play the game because it lets me pretend that I'll overcome the shackles of my oppressors, as they cruelly attempt to bring me to tears. I do that because it's only a game. In real life I am probably ******. The fact stings, plain and simple.

In contrast, The Order allows people to perform similar duties and functions as a brown-shirt in Adolf Hitlers empire of tears.

I came across The Order today because we were wardec'd by a member corp, IT WOULD SEEM.
I am so excited about this opportunity to embody the same courage, strength, comradeship, diligence,
and friendship of the great and historic troublemakers, like Mandela or Gandhi or Jesus.

Excerpt taken from, 'Dummies Guide to charging The Order on a Rainbow pwny." Shocked
***I'm a noob, trading in Dodixie. Msg me if you like doing honest business.***



NMDanny
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2013-12-13 13:05:12 UTC
Although i'm a 3m sp noob and I often mine, I think that pirates ganking AFK miners/bots is good for the non afk miners, since they would have less competition and eventually get more profit.
Moral-wise, killing unarmed and weak mining barges is not ethical or honorable, but who cares about that in Eve?

However, mining is inherently an AFK/low attention activity, in all MMORPGs, so expecting miners to have constant attention on the game is impractical, nobody is going to stare at a red laser hitting an asteroid for an hour. Unless CCP were to add some kind of mining minigame.

If miner are literally away from their comptuter then by all means, they should be killed. But if somebody is alt tabbing/using a split screen and doing other things, and occasionally checking the local chat/dscanner for gankers, then I don't think it's ethical to kill him. If miners focus on the game constantly, they might aswell switch to a mo
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2013-12-13 14:21:13 UTC
kalyte Sinulf wrote:
Opinion from young miner.

I think this "Order" is just a bunch of fat guys with little wieners, who want to have a huge banana so they could show off on the New Eden world.

I got ganked by "Order" for no reason, I checked the rules and it was none of them, so it looks like they will suicide on all miners just because you are miner, you have a mining barge and you have been spotted on Asteroids belt. I think whole idea which James 315 created is long gone and those little wieners who fly todays New Eden are just trying to hide them self in James 315 shadow so they could suicide on miners and later on send them an email saying "I did it!" I don't see any good here, speaking from players side, games economic side, New Eden world side and etc.

So stop saying that whole this circus is a good thing, as I personally think this is just one of the ways to cut down the number of new players who will quit after getting poped with their first mining barge on asteroids belt.


Since I am back from leave this weekend. Let me open by saying....

Why Hello there.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Gaylord Fappington
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2013-12-13 16:36:30 UTC
Says 'I got ganked by "Order" for no reason'

Has no permit.

I really don't know what to say here.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-12-13 18:13:38 UTC
How do these damn "james 315 hurt my feelings" threads keep getting necro'd? This thing must have been like ten pages back! Let it die!

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
#220 - 2013-12-13 21:53:04 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
How do these damn "james 315 hurt my feelings" threads keep getting necro'd? This thing must have been like ten pages back! Let it die!


It's a glorious thread, why should we want it to die?

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!