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CSM8 First Impressions: I am disappoint.

First post
Author
Ali Aras
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-05-30 02:54:46 UTC
My only frustration is with the folks who tried to call us out earlier for not communicating. I'm giving it all I can, and if there's something that's missing I would love to (a) hear what, specifically, is missing and/or (b) what, specifically, someone would like to see that is not being done already.

I'm not gonna play "guess-why-I'm-mad"; it's ineffective and an unproductive use of my time.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2013-06-10 04:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Ali Aras wrote:
I'm giving it all I can, and if there's something that's missing I would love to (a) hear what, specifically, is missing and/or (b) what, specifically, someone would like to see that is not being done already.

I'm not gonna play "guess-why-I'm-mad"; it's ineffective and an unproductive use of my time.


People have BEEN specific for years.

For the past 3 years after the CSM is finished for the year only one wonderful thing has been said.

"This year was the best CSM yet!"

Every.
Single.
Time.

So I will remind you CSM's of the truth.

Last year the chairman, and at least 2-3 others were voted in on platforms that they themselves thought up and posted in their blogs - low-sec and industry.

I'll remind you of Seleene's here and here.

Completely, and utterly an Industry platform from the chairman. Indeed an "Industrial Revolution."

What industry was changed?

And yet another year of "This year was the best and most productive CSM yet".

However, it was a total failure for the people they apparently lobbied for.

(I did rather vocally call him out on this and he was defended by the entire CSM, why? Because they are going to Iceland and calling a spade a spade would be detrimental to all of them).

POS changes will be held back another year for Dust, Launchers, Formation Flying, T-Shirts and Cups.

I feel that flying people to iceland every year turns them into a bunch of "Yes Men" for CCP so they can sit back and say "Hey we did due diligence, all the yes men went over it very carefully".

I put this question to you - If last year's CSM was a roaring success - Then at what exact point do you think it would be fair to say that the CSM was an utter failure ? What exactly would have to (not) happen ?


After monocle-gate people figured CCP might listen to the CSM and start bringing about changes that have been sorely needed for a long time. This year I see voter turnout is down and rationales and reasons have been given for this without any proof.

I put it to you that voter turnout is down because the voters realised - they were wrong. CCP isn't listening, Dust is merely another attention grabber for CCP away from FIS (remember FIS vs WIS?), along with T-Shirts and Cups as we saw at the underwhelming keynote this year.

Meanwhile all other long awaited features and fixes to the game have been put off another year even though many of them were shown in the keynote the year before.

This isn't to do with you, you weren't on last years's CSM. If you're wondering why people are pissed, this is at least part of it I'd suggest. Here is a copy of the POS thread last year, almost an exact copy of this years.

I have mailed to you a proposal regarding Mining Profession Workflow that Seleene said he would champion last year, and was never mentioned in the CSM minutes once - this is why.

There is no reason to waste your time playing "Guess why you're mad" with people, it's actually pretty damned obvious.

Just gently I would put to you that the real question is - are YOU (all) a waste of OUR time ?

(This post is not aimed at you Ali, to be perfectly honest I don't know a lot about you, but you did ask the question).

.

Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-06-19 02:55:22 UTC
The CSM is not a guarantee that there is never be going to be another bug in the game.

It's not really fair to stand up and shout "WHY DIDN'T CCP SEE THIS COMING!? WHERE IS THE CSM!?" on every technical issue and bug. MMOs are going to have bugs.

Now, if CCP announced some brain dead change to mechanics or balance and the CSM sat on their hands, that's something to complain about, but the technical issues involving a launcher doesn't really seem to be their domain to me.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2013-06-19 10:05:11 UTC
It's also worth remembering that CCP did ask us to check the launcher out on a test server before it went live and it worked fine. Remember that only a fraction of players had technical issues with the launcher; unfortunately, those issues weren't revealed until after it went live.

The ease (or lack therof) of account/character switching was raised as an issue, and will be ~iterated~ on.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#45 - 2013-06-19 10:29:37 UTC
The CSM also advised CCP not to disable direct client launching until the players were fully confident in the launcher. And so they haven't disabled it. So if you hate the launcher so bad, just create a shortcut to the exe file and use that.


More generally:

We, the CSM, can't make everything perfect forever instantly. We can't even do it eventually.

We can make some things better (or less bad), and we can sometimes change the order in which other things get fixed. That's what you can reasonably expect from us. It's less than everything you want but it's way better than getting nothing.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

None ofthe Above
#46 - 2013-06-19 14:16:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's also worth remembering that CCP did ask us to check the launcher out on a test server before it went live and it worked fine. Remember that only a fraction of players had technical issues with the launcher; unfortunately, those issues weren't revealed until after it went live.

The ease (or lack therof) of account/character switching was raised as an issue, and will be ~iterated~ on.


Malcanis wrote:
The CSM also advised CCP not to disable direct client launching until the players were fully confident in the launcher. And so they haven't disabled it. So if you hate the launcher so bad, just create a shortcut to the exe file and use that.


More generally:

We, the CSM, can't make everything perfect forever instantly. We can't even do it eventually.

We can make some things better (or less bad), and we can sometimes change the order in which other things get fixed. That's what you can reasonably expect from us. It's less than everything you want but it's way better than getting nothing.



I do believe you when you say that CSM members checked out the launcher and it worked for you guys. There were bug reports filed on SiSi for the launcher, but honestly there is always a small subset of people that get hit with problems with every damn patch.

Keeping the back door to authentication without the launcher was a good move. Pleased that it didn't disappear when Odyssey launched. I was pretty certain that was a change in plain, so thanks to CSM for their part in that.

The speed with which the launcher change was announced and deployed was remarkable. More testing would probably helped. A mass test or two to see what kind of traffic and load it was going to generate. Maybe this happened and I missed it? Under the impression at the moment that we missed it.

What I haven't heard about and have called for, is CSM discussing with CCP about ways to improve launch stability. Is this happening behind the scenes?

I believe the NDA does not preclude saying, "Yes we brought that topic up." Is this correct?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2013-06-19 16:11:51 UTC
It is. I personally have not been involved in such a discussion, but other CSMs may have been. I wouldnt be able to contribute much as I lack the technical background.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

None ofthe Above
#48 - 2013-06-19 16:51:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It is. I personally have not been involved in such a discussion, but other CSMs may have been. I wouldnt be able to contribute much as I lack the technical background.


I am grateful for the confirmation. Thank you.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

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