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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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Par'Gellen
#441 - 2013-05-25 17:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Here is an idea for alleviating the launcher's python memory bloat issue. How about adding into the launcher the ability to enter specific client path and startup information for each account? This way you can launch multiple clients from different paths from the same launcher and would be a very simple thing to do. It could easily be coded in an afternoon (if that).

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#442 - 2013-05-25 17:03:54 UTC
All depends on your choice of 'Method' used when logging in multiple characters.

My own personal choice is to select those needed for a list of over forty 'Corp works a *****' then using the 'ExE' open the required numbers of clients, fill in the details and hit connect on each screen,,Pre Selection method I believe some have called it, this allows me to log in 10 or so clients....without the background clutter of multiple log in screens currently reported in these forums, just leaves me with a neat row of ' Evefile.exe *32 ' equaling the number of clients I have running and nothing more.

Others appear to be happy to trudge through the current log on screen process and accept the crud that goes with it including the eyesore of the log in screen.

My guess would be the purist players will go for the former method every time when using large numbers of characters simply for the ease of use.

Comments heard when discussing this mess in Corp and Alliance often revolve around the fact that it is felt the log in process currently offered is slow tedious and unduly effected by intrusive advertising which is not why they come to play EVE, commercial considerations aside it should also be noted that when asked what sort of time they spend reading EVE forums and more interestingly when they do this reveals they actually do spend a lot of time there, but normally when log into the game and either engaged in some mundane activity or sitting in stations were they have all the other benefits that come with being logged in to hand, and not when logging into the game.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#443 - 2013-05-25 17:05:54 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
saw a post stating that they found it fine to log in with multiple accounts, saying it was as fast, if not faster, than the old method. I now have to determine if that person is the exception or not, and to do that people need to forward me their issues and concerns. Many already have, and I think it's safe to conclude that in this instance it was an exceptional case, and not representative of everyone else. I'm not going to tell you that the design is perfect, but it's something that we're actively iterating upon: there have been changes made to the design already, taken directly from our own experience and the player feedback here.
If you are talking about my post earlier I can't imagine how I would be the exception to the rule. I just open the launcher, select the account I'd like to log in, enter password, click log in, then click switch user account, repeat. Very fast.

Please don't misconstrue what I said; I love the fact that you find it better and faster (that was essentially the point) it's just that from the tone of the forum not many people agree with your position.

I want to work with those who don't agree and find either ways to meet them in the middle, bring them around to my point of thinking or come up with an acceptable solution Smile
Par'Gellen
#444 - 2013-05-25 17:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
CCP Atropos wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
saw a post stating that they found it fine to log in with multiple accounts, saying it was as fast, if not faster, than the old method. I now have to determine if that person is the exception or not, and to do that people need to forward me their issues and concerns. Many already have, and I think it's safe to conclude that in this instance it was an exceptional case, and not representative of everyone else. I'm not going to tell you that the design is perfect, but it's something that we're actively iterating upon: there have been changes made to the design already, taken directly from our own experience and the player feedback here.
If you are talking about my post earlier I can't imagine how I would be the exception to the rule. I just open the launcher, select the account I'd like to log in, enter password, click log in, then click switch user account, repeat. Very fast.

Please don't misconstrue what I said; I love the fact that you find it better and faster (that was essentially the point) it's just that from the tone of the forum not many people agree with your position.

I want to work with those who don't agree and find either ways to meet them in the middle, bring them around to my point of thinking or come up with an acceptable solution Smile

Oh sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you meant you were wondering if my method was strange. I was just saying I couldn't imagine how using the product as intended might be an odd way of doing it Big smile My bad.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#445 - 2013-05-25 17:08:40 UTC
Official comment about this thread please.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=239683&find=unread

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#446 - 2013-05-25 17:09:54 UTC
Salpun wrote:

What kind of comment are you looking for?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#447 - 2013-05-25 17:10:27 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
saw a post stating that they found it fine to log in with multiple accounts, saying it was as fast, if not faster, than the old method. I now have to determine if that person is the exception or not, and to do that people need to forward me their issues and concerns. Many already have, and I think it's safe to conclude that in this instance it was an exceptional case, and not representative of everyone else. I'm not going to tell you that the design is perfect, but it's something that we're actively iterating upon: there have been changes made to the design already, taken directly from our own experience and the player feedback here.
If you are talking about my post earlier I can't imagine how I would be the exception to the rule. I just open the launcher, select the account I'd like to log in, enter password, click log in, then click switch user account, repeat. Very fast.

Please don't misconstrue what I said; I love the fact that you find it better and faster (that was essentially the point) it's just that from the tone of the forum not many people agree with your position.

I want to work with those who don't agree and find either ways to meet them in the middle, bring them around to my point of thinking or come up with an acceptable solution Smile


tbh if you said you wont ever get rid of the bin folder bypass id never post on this subject again.

its a solution that im happy with and offers me the functionality that I need

OMG when can i get a pic here

Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#448 - 2013-05-25 17:14:14 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Kind of sad in my opinion that players themselves are in some cases finding fixes that CCP cannot. Should be CCPs job to make sure they have a working product when they release it, and not these issues they have had recently. Makes me wonder about the quality control process at CCP, and if perhaps some new method should be applied.

Perhaps making it much easier to get onto Singularity for people who aren't technologically advanced enough to accomplish the task of doing so in order to make the testing. Maybe some kind of opt in option when you install the Eve client that automatically sets up a Singularity client on your computer along with the Tranquility one. Adding some kind of incentive on Tranquility along with making the feature I described above would most likely make the testing more real world and more bugs could be found.

I think if there was easier access to Singularity with Tranquility incentives, CCP could get better real world results and find the bugs that need to be found without having all these release day problems.


On the first point, you are absolutely correct. I realize that CCP cannot test every type of user installation in house, but basics like Non-Admin user problems based on storing data in the program files directory (against Microsoft's published development guidelines) and zombie launcher processes should have been easily found by CCP in house and corrected before release.
For the second point, CCP has pages of feedback from SiSi testing of this new launcher from real world users. Several of the bugs currently in the Tranquility launcher were posted, and CCP ignored them. CCP released the launcher anyway, and these same bugs are now reported in these feedback threads. All the real world feedback in the universe is useless if the developers choose to ignore it.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#449 - 2013-05-25 17:14:37 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Salpun wrote:

What kind of comment are you looking for?

Likely hood of official launcher getting same functionality soon. Strength of his code?
Could you just borrow his code and all would be well Big smile or now that a player has coded it will it take longer for same functionality to reach the launcher.

His launcher was going to be brought up some time might as well be ahead of the issue.Twisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#450 - 2013-05-25 17:15:47 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
tbh if you said you wont ever get rid of the bin folder bypass id never post on this subject again.

its a solution that im happy with and offers me the functionality that I need

I can't make that statement, because it wouldn't be true. At some undetermined point in the future it will be removed. I can however restate what I've already posted and say that it won't go away until the functionality you're making use of and desire is available in the EVE Launcher.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#451 - 2013-05-25 17:22:47 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Salpun wrote:

What kind of comment are you looking for?

Likely hood of official launcher getting same functionality soon. Strength of his code?
Could you just borrow his code and all would be well Big smile or now that a player has coded it will it take longer for same functionality to reach the launcher.

His launcher was going to be brought up some time might as well be ahead of the issue.Twisted

Most of the features that are in the linked thread were on our backlog except the storage of passwords. Password storage wasn't done in the EVE client for security reasons and we don't do it in the EVE Launcher for those same reasons. As for when, I can't really say. I also would not like to comment on the code; primarily because it could be misconstrued as some sort of official support or endorsement or the code, project and initiative.
Cevin North
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
#452 - 2013-05-25 17:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cevin North
CCP Atropos wrote:
Salpun wrote:

What kind of comment are you looking for?



Perhaps a " yes we think this is a good idea / crap idea / not misuse of code according to eula ????
(At least that is the answer i personaly hope to see on this question)


After all, you aked your community for help, now you got it, how do you deal with it? " suprise??"
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#453 - 2013-05-25 17:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Atropos wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Salpun wrote:

What kind of comment are you looking for?

Likely hood of official launcher getting same functionality soon. Strength of his code?
Could you just borrow his code and all would be well Big smile or now that a player has coded it will it take longer for same functionality to reach the launcher.

His launcher was going to be brought up some time might as well be ahead of the issue.Twisted

Most of the features that are in the linked thread were on our backlog except the storage of passwords. Password storage wasn't done in the EVE client for security reasons and we don't do it in the EVE Launcher for those same reasons. As for when, I can't really say. I also would not like to comment on the code; primarily because it could be misconstrued as some sort of official support or endorsement or the code, project and initiative.

Thanks just getting it on the record.Cool

Launching the new Sisi update locked on first attempt at checking for launcher update still. Second attempt was successful.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#454 - 2013-05-25 17:30:15 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
tbh if you said you wont ever get rid of the bin folder bypass id never post on this subject again.

its a solution that im happy with and offers me the functionality that I need

I can't make that statement, because it wouldn't be true. At some undetermined point in the future it will be removed. I can however restate what I've already posted and say that it won't go away until the functionality you're making use of and desire is available in the EVE Launcher.


the functionality was in the old launcher/patcher. SSO and your whole concept behind it will continue to break it for multiaccount holders.

I don't want a single account name and password for all my accounts - its less secure
I don't want some token thing to add an extra step to logging in.
i dont want 2 programs running on my pc just so i can get 1 eve client to work
I don't care about your voice coms and facebook pages, twitch tv and other such waste of time

I just want to get to each account individually with the 3 steps(or less) I currently use. like I have done for the bulk of the last 8 years ive played.
its not about change, meh change isn't an issue UNLESS its a loss of functionality i.e. the current launcher

if all your trying to achive is a way of linking accounts together so you can track them. let me do that via account managment

OMG when can i get a pic here

Sarmatiko
#455 - 2013-05-25 17:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP Atropos wrote:
Password storage wasn't done in the EVE client for security reasons and we don't do it in the EVE Launcher for those same reasons.

Guess we have to use 3rd party tools then, switching to even more insecure zone of custom code, because CCP is unwilling to provide this feature officially. What?

ps: I occasionally play GW2 and their launcher has "remember password" function from the early beta and this is extremely useful. While concerns about user security are valid, please let me worry about my own security.
After all, if someone breaks into my computer (physically\remotely), stealing all data (including encrypted password storage) - EVE account credentials will be the least important thing to worry about.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#456 - 2013-05-25 17:46:20 UTC
When I hear SSO I think yay I can sign into a master account interface select the computer template I am logging into and EVE will launch with the same setup I had when I closed it down. Sounds like great use of the CREST interface to me.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#457 - 2013-05-25 17:48:32 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
While concerns about user security are valid, please let me worry about my own security.

And who do you come running to whenever your account gets accessed by someone without your knowledge or consent?
That's right, CCP.
Statements like "let me worry about my own security" aren't enough to simply remove liability, nor are they or any disclaimers or agreements going to stop people from petitioning if their accounts are or are suspected to be compromised.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Niding
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#458 - 2013-05-25 17:51:09 UTC
I kinda get why they are using the lancher to promote Twitch for example.

Lately EVE has made it to the frontpage of the twitch games page, intitally thru the efforts of streamers like Mad_ani and Mittens etc, and it seems like CCP has taken note of this.
Alot of potential customers will randomly click on frontpage streams of Twitch looking for entertainment. A % of these will
sign up for a trial and possibly become paying customers.
I get that part.

But making the CURRENT userbase suffer for a promotional tool (in part) isnt a way to go forward. Ive been a twitch viewer long time before CCP took notice of it, and there is absolutly nothing on the launcher that I even have the slightest intrest of.

I know you have said repeatedly you will remove the EXEFILE gamestart feature, but only when customers are satisfied with the new launcher.
Based on what I see from the launcher functionality, I have a hard time seeing you will ever reach that level.
I hope Im wrong in that assumption.

Im betting at one point when forum has quieted down somewhat you take that as a "everything is ok" sign and just goes
ahead with the final step (no more exefile start).

With the inevitable threadnaughts.
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#459 - 2013-05-25 17:57:49 UTC
Niding wrote:
I kinda get why they are using the lancher to promote Twitch for example.

Lately EVE has made it to the frontpage of the twitch games page, intitally thru the efforts of streamers like Mad_ani and Mittens etc, and it seems like CCP has taken note of this.
Alot of potential customers will randomly click on frontpage streams of Twitch looking for entertainment. A % of these will
sign up for a trial and possibly become paying customers.
I get that part.

But making the CURRENT userbase suffer for a promotional tool (in part) isnt a way to go forward. Ive been a twitch viewer long time before CCP took notice of it, and there is absolutly nothing on the launcher that I even have the slightest intrest of.

I know you have said repeatedly you will remove the EXEFILE gamestart feature, but only when customers are satisfied with the new launcher.
Based on what I see from the launcher functionality, I have a hard time seeing you will ever reach that level.
I hope Im wrong in that assumption.

Im betting at one point when forum has quieted down somewhat you take that as a "everything is ok" sign and just goes
ahead with the final step (no more exefile start).

With the inevitable threadnaughts.


This. THIS. A THOUSAND times this. As soon as we stop getting on CCPs arse about their broken new launcher, they will assume we all now love the smeggin' thing. The answer, of course, is to continue threadnaught after threadnaught until they realise that the paying userbase they already have prefers functionality to neat new pictures and links to everything a 12 year old with ADHD needs to keep them staring at CCP's adverts.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?

Lysa Riay
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#460 - 2013-05-25 18:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lysa Riay
Just give me back the pre-launcher days option back of open EVE and login on 1 of my remembered accounts!
Old version of the Launcher was better than this new one, but is still pointless!

I want to play EvE-Online,
not change user name, enter password, accept EULA, launch game
- Everytime I want to log 1 (or more) of my 4 accounts on!!!

It should be Choose Account (or add & remember a new one) , enter password, PLAY (EULA only if you update it & ONCE per client (not account))

How HARD is it to understand that I pay to play, not 'fart about' with a launcher???


And if this annoys the marketing machine, then they know how I feel!

Could Klang take the (now rotting) pizzas & the launcher out as they leave the building plz.