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Should a tackled ship be able to self destruct?
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Goose99
#21 - 2011-10-21 19:26:53 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:
Now what would be nice is if self destruct did damage to other ships...like a smart-bomb...but BIGGER...SO MUCH BIGGER!


^this
The Bear08
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-21 19:40:15 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
The Bear08 wrote:
What do you think?

grow some balls and engage real targets?

sorry but you asked Oops


I'll just let that freighter pass through next time.

Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets?
Goose99
#23 - 2011-10-21 19:42:47 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
The Bear08 wrote:
What do you think?

grow some balls and engage real targets?

sorry but you asked Oops


I'll just let that freighter pass through next time.

Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets?


You should self destruct your bcs.Bear
The Bear08
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-21 19:54:26 UTC
I actually escaped somehow...
Jita Shopper86
LAWL Corp
#25 - 2011-10-24 06:50:49 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
Good evening,

I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure X

I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp.
Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution.

What do you think?

Ppl self-destruct b/c they're chicken and don't want to harm their kill efficiency. Pretty lame. Yeah sure, let them self-destruct but also generate a killmail to whoever did top damage. Easiest solution.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-10-24 09:28:39 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
The Bear08 wrote:
What do you think?

grow some balls and engage real targets?

sorry but you asked Oops


I'll just let that freighter pass through next time.

Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets?

me is only 1 person Cool and i wasn't killed for quite some time....
And i haven't nyx (yet).

So i have no ideas who were that guys you killed Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#27 - 2011-10-25 06:39:25 UTC
yes
Lemok Sonji
Lethal Devotion
Escalation Theory
#28 - 2011-10-25 06:53:04 UTC
Hey, even on star-trek they tried to self-destruct the enterprise several times.
If they can do that to scam for insurance money or "screw you, you don't this ship!" move, so why shouldn't an EvE pilot?

Its a legit move.
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#29 - 2011-10-25 08:03:44 UTC
Dynast wrote:

This, pretty much. If you want mechanics added to grant you your "fair" killmail, perhaps you'd like some mechanics added as well that only allow "fair" fights? That'd be awfully silly, though.




*Expansion notes for winter-

any fleet can only have one Capital in system at a time

lul

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#30 - 2011-10-25 14:09:38 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
Good evening,

I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure X

I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp.
Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution.

What do you think?


I think you killed it, and he did you a favour by expediting the process...................

Was the reason in attacking him not for him to lose his ship?
Anvil44
Quantshure
#31 - 2011-10-25 21:23:12 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
With the coming end of the logoffski, I think we'll see supercapitals being self-destructed to deny killmails when things hit the fan. I recently had a proposal thread in the Assembly Hall to have self-destructs generate killmails for this very reason. Killmails are an integral part of how people gauge success in Eve. CCP has now confirmed my stance:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2922

Quote:
Killmails are great. They serve as reminders of good fights (or dubious mistakes). They let you measure losses inflicted on your enemy in cold hard ISK. They also demonstrate some interesting choices in ship fitting, or cargo-movement attempts. If you're so inclined, they provide a way to track your kill/death ratio, and measure it against your peers...


In other words, killmails as they exist today are working as intended. Now they plan on adding lost implants to the killmail system. It's high time self-destructions get killmails as well, to create a clearer picture for all the reasons listed by CCP Masterplan.


LMAO - I get a killmail for selfdestructing my ship. Since I laid the final blow and all that. Killmails for the epeen...

I don't object in theory to getting some type of notification that I was involved in causing someone to self-destruct but what they had as modules/cargo...oh well. Gank faster.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Reislier
#32 - 2011-10-26 04:20:54 UTC
If you get me trapped in a corner.. the lease I can do is explode in your face.

And I would wish that you lose an eye.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Derkata
#33 - 2011-10-26 13:36:47 UTC
Killmail should be given to the person who did the most damage, with no insurance payout since breaking your own stuff is insurance fraud.

They could also make the drop rate on items higher for self destructed ships. You'd probably find a lot less freighters self destructing if they were basically giving you more items.

The problem is everyone comparing the length of their dongs via killboards and isk efficiency.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-27 05:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Stan Smith
Dark Pangolin wrote:
Now what would be nice is if self destruct did damage to other ships...like a smart-bomb...but BIGGER...SO MUCH BIGGER!


makes sense since you're overloading the reactor of your ship which needs to make enough power to keep a spaceship moving and fly at faster than light speeds, this explosion should be MASSIVE(!!!!!11) and do damage to other ships

Quote:
In other words, killmails as they exist today are working as intended. Now they plan on adding lost implants to the killmail system. It's high time self-destructions get killmails as well, to create a clearer picture for all the reasons listed by CCP Masterplan.


"i didn't destroy that ship, but i want a killmail anyway!" yeah, that seems legit

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
ImmutableDark
Absalom.
#35 - 2011-10-27 06:06:55 UTC
Yes.
Cletus Graeme
Shai Dorsai
#36 - 2011-10-27 22:41:06 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
What do you think?


The only reason that self-destructs are annoying is cos they rob you of a killmail. Are killmails really that important? I guess it depends on the ship. A SuperCapital self-destructing is a much bigger deal than a Battleship doing the same thing.

I'd say YES a pilot should be able to self-destruct his ship tackled or otherwise - he is still piloting the ship afterall. Also, sometimes there isn't anything else he can do (see your own example) except eject or logoff.

IF there was a problem with people self-destructing too often (afaik there isn't) the obvious solution would be to increase the timer to 3mins or more. Another, more radical, suggestion would be for all pilot bonuses to drop once the timer was activated (as if he had ejected) so that he can't keep repairing etc.

BUT it's not really a problem - so why fix it?

TLDR - There are more important things that need fixing/tweaking than the self-destruct mechanics.
Shaidar Hussan
HelloKittyFanclub
#37 - 2011-10-30 01:50:54 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
me is only 1 person Cool and i wasn't killed for quite some time....
And i haven't nyx (yet).

So i have no ideas who were that guys you killed Lol

http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=525
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=458
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=818
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=817
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=834

Or sorry, did you mean legion of death?
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=724
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=591
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=719
http://www.galaxyquestonline.com/RAGE/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=716

etc.

Cletus Graeme wrote:
The only reason that self-destructs are annoying is cos they rob you of a killmail. Are killmails really that important? I guess it depends on the ship. A SuperCapital self-destructing is a much bigger deal than a Battleship doing the same thing.

I'd say YES a pilot should be able to self-destruct his ship tackled or otherwise - he is still piloting the ship afterall. Also, sometimes there isn't anything else he can do (see your own example) except eject or logoff.

IF there was a problem with people self-destructing too often (afaik there isn't) the obvious solution would be to increase the timer to 3mins or more. Another, more radical, suggestion would be for all pilot bonuses to drop once the timer was activated (as if he had ejected) so that he can't keep repairing etc.

BUT it's not really a problem - so why fix it?

TLDR - There are more important things that need fixing/tweaking than the self-destruct mechanics.


Aye, there are more important things but this would not be a difficult thing to fix (just extend the timer. I agree that stopping it completely would be a bad idea. Nasty people like me would probably hold ships indefinitely to force toons to jump out of them).

This is also going to become a much bigger issue once the 15 minute loggofski trick goes, supercaps will begin avoiding lossmails by self destructing.

Whether carebears like it or not, killmails are a fundamental part of eve for the PvP element. You don't want a lossmail? Don't jump a freighter through a gate without a scout, problem solved. Idiots shouldn't be able to self destruct to hide their mistakes.
veshna wildsun
Echoes of the Hollow
#38 - 2011-10-30 03:34:24 UTC
I really think that it is working perfectly as it is right now. You made a mistake and paid for it, but you gained valuable experience in the process. Suck it up and learn from your mistakes.
Shaidar Hussan
HelloKittyFanclub
#39 - 2011-10-30 07:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaidar Hussan
veshna wildsun wrote:
I really think that it is working perfectly as it is right now. You made a mistake and paid for it, but you gained valuable experience in the process. Suck it up and learn from your mistakes.

If you think focusing on the freighter, and sacrificing a T3 to the escort, was the correct course of action then quite simply you need to lrn2pvp.

If however you meant we should constantly have a cyno ready to jump in a nyx/aeon if we can't win a fight, then go join solar fleet or shadow of death. I heard they love that sort of thing. However I personally feel I shouldn't need to overwhelm opponents to the point where we can kill them in two minutes, and in all honesty if I ever felt I had to on a regular basis I'd quit eve.

The truth is this is a questionable mechanic, fights rarely last less than two minutes and killmails are an integral part of eve. It isn't just about single pilots "epeens", it was just a freighter, it didn't even have anything in it. The point is KMs are used to judge alliance's performance, and individual pilot's competence.

For one thing if someone applied to our alliance that had lost numerous freighters by jumping them through gates unscouted in lowsec I'd want to know before accepting them. For another, I'll reiterate my earlier point, idiots shouldn't be able to avoid KMs by blowing themselves up.

Actually this reminds me of a guy a few days back, he jumped out of his ship shouting "have it, take the ship just dont get me on a km" in local Big smile Stats whoring aggravates me, but only when it fails to correctly show a pilots achievements and failures. Pretty sure self destructing comes under hiding a pilot's failures.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-10-30 11:18:27 UTC
OP is a sore loser it seems ...

The idea about no "self-destruct" on ships is absolutely foolish im afraid. Heck for what its worth it should even do AOE around the ship ... but that would just open too much griefing opportunities ^^