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CCP, when eve is getting real PvP?

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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-05-22 20:33:17 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Need SP for best ships.



"best" is relative, as everything else in this game, xcept stupidity, which is so absolute that it delves into the absurd.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Rhea Rankin Nolen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-05-22 20:34:41 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
It has nothing to do with SP, but rather who has the most and best ships.

That and FC's who aren't incompetent.


Need SP for best ships.
More pilots = more SP = naturally, win.


No SP will save you from a guy with better piloting skills and better knowledge of game mechanics.

You can always buy the most pimped SP char on the bazaar, but if you're a n00b, you're a n00b.

piloting skills > skill points
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#43 - 2013-05-22 20:35:48 UTC
CompleteFailure wrote:
OP, you have no idea how wrong you are. Check this vid from Scaurus's live stream a few nights ago:

http://www.twitch.tv/themittanidotcom/b/405319686

Scaurus is a highly experienced PVPer who has been around for quite a while. At about the 1:57:00 mark, he accepts a challenge from a corp mate of mine, Dash Ing, who merely wanted to give him a good fight for the audience. Dash is about 3-4 moths old. This fight is a Merlin vs. an Incursus, a pretty fair 1v1 matchup.

As you see in the video, Scaurus all but has the fight locked down...but OH ****!! I BURNT OUT MY GUNS!! The fight went to Dash, who in a very Gentlemanly display, decided to let him go when he got through the Merlin's armor. Just goes to show, even experienced pilots make mistakes, and very inexperienced pilots need only take advantage to turn the tide.

Stop whining, get a clue, and HTFU.


So a single mistake due to lazyness is enough to keep it in your memory for ages, just cuz I BROKE THE MORE SP TO WIN RULE ONCE, SEE?!

Lame. Just one case of the iron rule violation? Just ONE? You don't sound so convincing.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#44 - 2013-05-22 20:36:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
OP how about I roll a new character and train some basic skills, and we fight? You can use whatever you want.

Op you haven't responded, so I just want to reiterate that this offer still stands.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#45 - 2013-05-22 20:36:31 UTC
Rhea Rankin Nolen wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
It has nothing to do with SP, but rather who has the most and best ships.

That and FC's who aren't incompetent.


Need SP for best ships.
More pilots = more SP = naturally, win.


No SP will save you from a guy with better piloting skills and better knowledge of game mechanics.

You can always buy the most pimped SP char on the bazaar, but if you're a n00b, you're a n00b.

piloting skills > skill points


Except piloting skills are skillpoints.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#46 - 2013-05-22 20:37:54 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
OP how about I roll a new character and train some basic skills, and we fight? You can use whatever you want.

Op you haven't responded, so I just want to reiterate that this offer still stands.


It is pointless, formula would just get proved again, and the lowest thing on my wishlist is ANOTHER proof of it.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
ian papabear
No Regard.
#47 - 2013-05-22 20:38:45 UTC
I said this before and i will continue to say it, SP is not a determining factor in pvp. yeah itll help with your deeps, tracking, speed, etc, but what really matters is tactics. Back in the day before the cane was nerfed I would fit my 425mm shield cane with two neuts and take on ANYTHING up to bs, my cane at the time put out nearly 1k dps, i would take on tech3's and aboslutely abolish them .

anyway, the point is, know what you are doing and you can participate in pvp no matter how low skilled you are.

as far as content goes, PVP is driven by the players, not CCP, it is up to you and I to build ships and fight each other. all these nullsec/highsec/lowsec fleets fights are driven by players who want to control space/regions/areas that CCP doesnt care about. if you want to pvp then go out and fight someone, blow this or that guy up becasue he called you a douche, or go fight him because you dont like his alliance tag, or jsut fight him,,,, just to fight him . again, its up to you.

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2013-05-22 20:38:56 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except piloting skills are skillpoints.


No piloting skills are piloting skills. SP has nothing at all to do with it.
Prince Kobol
#49 - 2013-05-22 20:39:05 UTC
The OP has so much its actually quite sad, I fear for our butthurt friend that he might do something like go back to wow
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#50 - 2013-05-22 20:40:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except piloting skills are skillpoints.


No piloting skills are piloting skills. SP has nothing at all to do with it.


Whoever has more SP wins.
Winner is said to have more piloting skills than the loser.

So either they're the same or very closely related.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-05-22 20:40:51 UTC
0/10 - left dissapointed
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#52 - 2013-05-22 20:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
ian papabear wrote:
I said this before and i will continue to say it, SP is not a determining factor in pvp. yeah itll help with your deeps, tracking, speed, etc, but what really matters is tactics. Back in the day before the cane was nerfed I would fit my 425mm shield cane with two neuts and take on ANYTHING up to bs, my cane at the time put out nearly 1k dps, i would take on tech3's and aboslutely abolish them .

anyway, the point is, know what you are doing and you can participate in pvp no matter how low skilled you are.

as far as content goes, PVP is driven by the players, not CCP, it is up to you and I to build ships and fight each other. all these nullsec/highsec/lowsec fleets fights are driven by players who want to control space/regions/areas that CCP doesnt care about. if you want to pvp then go out and fight someone, blow this or that guy up becasue he called you a douche, or go fight him because you dont like his alliance tag, or jsut fight him,,,, just to fight him . again, its up to you.


What's the point of getting into a fight you have no chance to win due to lack of SP?

Prince Kobol wrote:
The OP has so much its actually quite sad, I fear for our butthurt friend that he might do something like go back to wow


I have blizzallergy. Never got past the huge disappointment called WC3, never got to experience a single blizzard title afterwards.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dyphorus
Inritus Astrum
#53 - 2013-05-22 20:41:47 UTC
Strategy and tactics win in EVE. The right ships, fit in the appropriate manner, the right amount of ships, engaging as needed in a given situation. SP beyond the basic requirement's to properly fly/fit your ship of choice are irrelevant.

How many of my 25-30 mil SP do you think mattered to the bomber I @$%# on last night in my 4 mil isk Tristan last night? A simple fit that a new pilot could train into, and afford to fly, within a month.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
#54 - 2013-05-22 20:42:26 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
OP, you have no idea how wrong you are. Check this vid from Scaurus's live stream a few nights ago:

http://www.twitch.tv/themittanidotcom/b/405319686

Scaurus is a highly experienced PVPer who has been around for quite a while. At about the 1:57:00 mark, he accepts a challenge from a corp mate of mine, Dash Ing, who merely wanted to give him a good fight for the audience. Dash is about 3-4 moths old. This fight is a Merlin vs. an Incursus, a pretty fair 1v1 matchup.

As you see in the video, Scaurus all but has the fight locked down...but OH ****!! I BURNT OUT MY GUNS!! The fight went to Dash, who in a very Gentlemanly display, decided to let him go when he got through the Merlin's armor. Just goes to show, even experienced pilots make mistakes, and very inexperienced pilots need only take advantage to turn the tide.

Stop whining, get a clue, and HTFU.


So a single mistake due to lazyness is enough to keep it in your memory for ages, just cuz I BROKE THE MORE SP TO WIN RULE ONCE, SEE?!

Lame. Just one case of the iron rule violation? Just ONE? You don't sound so convincing.


This is just one example, yes, but it happens ALL THE TIME. Older players tend to get overconfident against newer players, and quite often it gets them killed.

And no, SP does not equal piloting skill. One allows you to fit and fly the ship, the other let's you fly it competently. Again, as in the vid, letting that experience and skill lapse can cost you the fight. I'm sorry you simply haven't figured out how to do it, but that is the reality.
ian papabear
No Regard.
#55 - 2013-05-22 20:43:38 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
ian papabear wrote:
I said this before and i will continue to say it, SP is not a determining factor in pvp. yeah itll help with your deeps, tracking, speed, etc, but what really matters is tactics. Back in the day before the cane was nerfed I would fit my 425mm shield cane with two neuts and take on ANYTHING up to bs, my cane at the time put out nearly 1k dps, i would take on tech3's and aboslutely abolish them .

anyway, the point is, know what you are doing and you can participate in pvp no matter how low skilled you are.

as far as content goes, PVP is driven by the players, not CCP, it is up to you and I to build ships and fight each other. all these nullsec/highsec/lowsec fleets fights are driven by players who want to control space/regions/areas that CCP doesnt care about. if you want to pvp then go out and fight someone, blow this or that guy up becasue he called you a douche, or go fight him because you dont like his alliance tag, or jsut fight him,,,, just to fight him . again, its up to you.


What's the point of getting into a fight you have no chance to win due to lack of SP?


the same way a police officer is thrown out into the street after 6months in the academy, to gain experience, get a feel for the job, adapt styles and learn ways to handle situations.

.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#56 - 2013-05-22 20:44:10 UTC
Poop.

If you wanted to say, fly T2 fitted cruisers, you need 10m SP....if you want to fly T2 frigs, then another couple of mill

This gives exactly the same SP in that ship as if you had 100m SP overall.

You can get a T2 fitted frig with a few million.


As others say, all you get from extra SP is a wider choice of ships, which is nice if you want it.

You can have 100m SP, but if you have little pvp experience, and you go up against a newbie who has spent all his time throwing ships around in PvP, and you have a buffer tank on.....you can, and will (eventually) die to their frig.


"You need moar SP to do PvP" is as valid as "You need moar isk to trade", as in, it isn't

Sure, if you want to fly a Black Ops / Titan / [ Insert BIIIIG ship here] then you need SP, but, hell, you can get into a fitted widow with around 20m if you specialise. YMMV but, I am 24d out of my Widow fitting with 24m SP, and thats because I took a minor detour into trade training.


You are confusing "skill points" with "skill", which comes with practice.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

ian papabear
No Regard.
#57 - 2013-05-22 20:44:39 UTC
anyone who says SP is a determinant factor in pvp is bad and should feel bad.

.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#58 - 2013-05-22 20:44:56 UTC
Dyphorus wrote:
Strategy and tactics win in EVE. The right ships, fit in the appropriate manner, the right amount of ships, engaging as needed in a given situation. SP beyond the basic requirement's to properly fly/fit your ship of choice are irrelevant.

How many of my 25-30 mil SP do you think mattered to the bomber I @$%# on last night in my 4 mil isk Tristan last night? A simple fit that a new pilot could train into, and afford to fly, within a month.



Once you get to the basic requirements you need to beat a guy, he gets the basic requirements for beating your beater. The process is infinite and you're always getting the short end of this stick, if you have lower SP.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-05-22 20:45:11 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except piloting skills are skillpoints.


No piloting skills are piloting skills. SP has nothing at all to do with it.


Whoever has more SP wins.
Winner is said to have more piloting skills than the loser.

So either they're the same or very closely related.



ok I have industry maxed out, science maxed out and I lose to a 5mil SP character in a destroyer.




man I must fail quite hard since I wasn't able to kill a decent destroyer pilot in a noobship and all that SP!Roll

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-05-22 20:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Basil Pupkin wrote:
It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.

Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.

So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
As an 8 month old player, I will say this... bullshit.

How many skill points do you think you can put into a ship class and support skills before you max it out?