Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Five months? A bit slow on the uptake are we?

Suggested links be added to the AF's back in 2011 when CCP did their Assault frig pass which ended up adding MWD bonus to them (the on/off grid discussion is old!)

But the necessity may not even arise if the solution to the on-/off-grid problem encourages the use of multiple link ships with redundancies (read: links on T1 BCs become the norm) .. the fast roams (frig/cruiser) already have problems hauling links around with them and the 'lack of' is made up for the mobility/fun factor of such roams.

^^^ This was what I was thinking and is therefor Genius - do this. Alternatively making it a targeted mod down the chain would be good - although it would limit the number of pilots receiving a boost at any one time it would task load the booster (swapping from one squad or wing to another) in larger fleets but in 12 man or smaller set-ups it would not require anything other than setting up on landing. Again squad commands links would not require any new action to pass on to the squad. I'd suggest a substantial range for the targeted links but nothing to put it beyond sniping or burn down range - something like 110km (if booster can lock that far!) - potentially with new implants to extend range by up to 10%.

Nano gangs remain a way smaller groups engage blobs and care should be taken to ensure that all racial links can be applied in their near maximum form from a platform with sufficient mobility to keep up with the gang 1800+ m/s min.

One thought I'd had was instead of removing off-grid boosting entirely, simply drastically reduce the effectiveness of boosts received if the pilot is not on the same grid as the booster. Say, by 50-75%. Maybe even add a high-rank skill (whatever Fleet Command is, plus one or two?) that reduces the off-grid penalty by a few percent per level.

Of course, if checking whether a ship is on the same grid as the booster is as complicated/load-heavy as a constant distance check, it wouldn't work so hot either.

But if it's as simple as comparing the ID of two grids, I wouldn't expect it to be a lot of overhead. About as much as checking "is this person in fleet with me" is. Could be wrong, of course!

For each ship you need to check distance only to your squad, wing and fleet commander. That's 3 distances to calculate. I don't see a problem.

Just make it so you cant activate links inside of a pos.

So how about this nastly little thing.

Make activating ganglinks work like weapons - aka not inside tower shields.

Ok, you are offgrid, but you can't sit in a tower, so you have to be actively involved (or you could get probed down and popped).

lol didn't read the whole thread but others see the same quick change...

I'm trying to condense some arguments that have been presented in a discussion on Twitter:

First, there is the opinion (from e.g.: Liang Nuren) that links as they stand are massively overpowered. In my experience, the classic example is the Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization: this link will reduce the cycle time of a mining or ice harvesting laser by 35% or so, meaning that all mining ships in the fleet get 50% higher yield over time. Similar things happen with Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers, you get massively improved range on webifiers and points (from memory, a boosted Arazu can get a long point out to 100km). To some this is massively overpowered. To others it's just an advantage of getting warfare links.

Second, there is the opinon that warfare links boosting from behind POS shields is unfair. After all, if you want to destroy that ship you first have to go through the POS. Suddenly your 6-man roaming gang needs to do structure bashing to get a "fair" fight. So to some, POS-OGB is unfair and overpowered. To others, it's "home field advantage".

Third, there is the consideration that almost by definition, link bonuses are an exclusive feature of blob warfare. To some, a blob is any fleet that beats you which has 1 more ship than your own fleet. To others, a blob is a fleet larger than some arbitrary N. The upcoming command ship bonuses make the existing T2 command ships more combat-worthy, but to some this isn't enough: why fly a claymore when you could fly a proper battlecruiser or battleship for more DPS?

Fourth, there is the consideration of Titan hull bonuses in general and the Rorqual bonus being tied to the industrial core: if warfare links can only buff fleetmates on the same grid, the Rorqual will no longer be used for mining fleets. Do titan hull bonuses need to be reviewed at the same time as warfare links?

The issue I have with boosting from a POS is that there is no risk involved. The whole point of Eve is balancing Risk versus Reward.

Current System:

Command Ship has Moderate Reward because 3% bonus to links
T3 Strategic Cruiser has Maximum reward because 5% bonus to links

AFK in POS boosting for fleet members in system: Zero risk, Maximum Reward (Using T3)
AFK in POS boosting for fleet members in system: Zero risk, Moderate Reward (Using CS)
"Unscannable" T3 boosting from Safe Spot: Minimal to Moderate Risk, Maximum Reward
Boosting from Safe Spot: Moderate Risk, Maximum Reward (Using T3)
Boosting from Safe Spot: Moderate Risk, Moderate Reward (Using CS)
Boosting on grid with fleet: Maximum Risk, Moderate Reward (Using Command Ship)

What I believe it should be:

CS should have the 3% bonus to links with an additional 2% bonus when deployed with fleet (on grid. maybe 1km radius of CS ship?)
T3 should have 3% bonus to links

Can't activate links within the force field of a POS = There is zero risk, so there should be zero reward
You can sit just outside the force field and run links but you can't while inside. There needs to be at least some risk factor.

Opinions?

My opinion on warfare links is very strongly biased by my experience as a miner. It is nigh compulsory to have an orca in fleet for hisec mining operations if one is to be economically competitive. These days we can just about get by with a fleet of mackinaws and a wing or fleet commander with Mining Foreman 5, but the 50% extra yield from having an orca with the laser optimisation link active is too good to pass up.

There are other bonuses to having an orca in fleet: the bonus of having a giant jetcan sitting near the fleet is not to be dismissed lightly. The current iteration of the Mackinaw disrupts that benefit though, since a fleet of four or five mackinaws can strip all of one type of ore from most hisec belts without returning to station. I consider the mackinaw to be an abomination.

How would nerfing or removing warfare links impact my gameplay? Simply, I'd have to accept lower yields in mining, just like every other miner. I would have to make a decision about flying two hulks and an orca versus three mackinaws, for example. So understandably, being resistant to change, I would be able to cope with warfare links being nerfed, but I don't want them removed altogether. At which point I have to wonder whether a laser optimisation link that provides a 5% bonus would be worth using, especially considering the presence of the mackinaw in the exhumers lineup.

What would be the function of a command ship without links? If we remove links from the game, would we have to remove command ships too? What if links were reduced significantly in strength from their current 30% bonuses to 10% bonuses, and required the command ship to be on grid?

At this point, I'd like to believe that links are useful things, just like group buffs in fantasy games (such as the "Bless" spell in the D&D cleric spellbook). My opinion is that links are currently overpowered, and should be limited in range either by kilometres or by requiring the command ship to be "on grid".

PS: I'd like to see the mining bonuses of the rorqual moved to the hull, or else have a replacement for the industrial core which allows mining bonuses to be given out from a mobile rorqual.

The rewrite that's needed to do new stuff with gang links will also affect a number of other things, including breaking one of the biggest remaining performance bottlenecks on Jita and big fleet fights. Unsurprisingly that helps raise its priority.