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Try our new hacking/archaeology sites!

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Author
CCP Bayesian
#541 - 2013-05-30 18:47:29 UTC
blink alt wrote:
I would be interested in more details on this. At first I assumed the can names meant something and reflected what kind of items could spawn in it, beyond just the low value items like the test reports. However, upon more testing it was apparant that the good loot, like the decyptors in a data site, was randomly spawning in any given container that was scattered from the spew container. Ill be sure to get back on sisi to try to figure it out myself but would apprecaite if you could take a moment for some clarification.


CCP Prime did it so I'm not entirely sure of the distribution but the items in the containers do now fit with the name of the container. I'll prompt him to explain in more depth.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#542 - 2013-05-30 19:12:05 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
blink alt wrote:
I would be interested in more details on this. At first I assumed the can names meant something and reflected what kind of items could spawn in it, beyond just the low value items like the test reports. However, upon more testing it was apparant that the good loot, like the decyptors in a data site, was randomly spawning in any given container that was scattered from the spew container. Ill be sure to get back on sisi to try to figure it out myself but would apprecaite if you could take a moment for some clarification.


CCP Prime did it so I'm not entirely sure of the distribution but the items in the containers do now fit with the name of the container. I'll prompt him to explain in more depth.
CCP Bayesian, can you explain the design intent behind the scattering container? Isn't the "game" in the hacking itself and thus the reward should be guaranteed? I think a successful hack should produce a loot window and an unsuccessful one could produce the scatter.

Hell, it'd be epic if ships created a loot scatter as well when they exploded!

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Soul-Crashing Lag
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#543 - 2013-05-30 21:15:48 UTC
I tried testing out the new probing system and I went looking 15 systems and found no signatures.
Eventually I found one.

Is it normal for sites to be this scarce ?
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#544 - 2013-05-30 21:24:16 UTC
Soul-Crashing Lag wrote:
I tried testing out the new probing system and I went looking 15 systems and found no signatures.
Eventually I found one.

Is it normal for sites to be this scarce ?


Sisi has few players working the re-spawns, so it's normal(ish). 15 systems is a lot though, you might you want to check your filters.
Mary Titania
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#545 - 2013-05-31 00:11:59 UTC
Don't be displayed in the overview items scattered?
Dodger Roger
Doomheim
#546 - 2013-06-01 06:05:53 UTC
Just got done doing some relic sites in null sec.

First off the hacking game seems to be insanely difficult and not in the good way. I get some grids that just are impossible to beat with the firewall placement.

Also if your going to make it so there are no npcs at the start but they spawn when failing a hack, please change tech 2 covert op ship to be able to defend themselves with a drone bay like the tech 1 ships.

During the stream (on twitch) the developer said that all scanning ships, t1 and t2 would be getting bonuses to the hacking game, which I do not see on the tech 2 covert ops.

I don't understand the need for the npc spawn on failing as if you fail twice the thing blows up getting you no money. Exploration ships are already burdened with so much special mods they have to carry to scan down the sites and to access them. Please take a look at that.
XmonkTad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#547 - 2013-06-01 06:11:10 UTC
Mario delTorres wrote:



Palal wrote:
blink alt wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
Is this some sort of confirmation that the bonuses will be present on the T2 Cov ops hulls??


Yup. T1 will have a +5 Strength bonus and T2 +10.


Will the t3 scanning sub system get +10 too?



^^^ +1

Please make the T3's viable.. Played several null sec sites just now before singularity went offline. I was able to finish 2 and several I couldn't finish. Using the T1 module and hacking:4 & arch:4. So I'm not terrible.

PRO TIP: You're goning to want cargo hold extenders on your ships! Nothing worse than grabbing cans and not having enough room!

t3 scanning subsystem has already +10% scan strength per level.


I too am interested in making sure that T3s get the virus strength bonus as well. Or at least make a mod for it.
Cov Ops ships have next to 0 in terms of combat potential, especially when loaded up with scanning mods. If there will be any spawns at all in these sites then some form of offense will be needed, probably in the form of another ship. I don't see why we can't have T3's, which are the traditional all-in-one exploration ships, given a similar bonus to the scanning subsystem. Perhaps have it replace that tractor beam range bonus (the one we never use)?
Or any ship that has a bonus to tractor beam range could also have a bonus to the range at which they can collect the spew containers?
Really, I just want my T3 to be as good as a T1 ship for running profession sites.
Teraim
Speedster's
#548 - 2013-06-01 08:37:09 UTC
I've just run a few sites (relic mainly) in null sec, altough the old mechanics were a bit boring I liked it better than the new one. The loot tables might be better but I didn't get any of it while the time I spend is more Shocked Also the hacking game itself get boring quickly... just clicking away with a half a brain does it (or not and poof). I rather sip my coffee while the module does the work...

I'm not going to type a long story as all points of concern have already been voiced by others before me.

Until they boost/fix the mechanics I'll be running combat sites only as I simply don't see the value vs time (or fun). Maybe a change in career is another option, unless things change on the short term (which I doubt based on experience :-))

I like the new scanning system a lot btw, great work!

Henry Montclaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#549 - 2013-06-01 09:15:08 UTC
Soul-Crashing Lag wrote:
I tried testing out the new probing system and I went looking 15 systems and found no signatures.
Eventually I found one.

Is it normal for sites to be this scarce ?


Just spent about four hours flying through null sec looking for sites and found none, except for one at the very beginning.
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#550 - 2013-06-01 11:05:28 UTC
Tried it again last night, after flying around null and low for a couple hours scanning systems, I finally found ONE site in a .3. Pretty sure it was Caldari space at this point. Upon warping in, I noticed the cans were all on top of each other, and there were STILL card-melting clouds of **** around said containers. Getting close enough and zooming in enough to have a chance at catching the failcans caused my GTX 570 to go to perma-100% utilization and my FPS dropped from 60 (capped) to anywhere from 15 to 3. Yes, three. Lowering all settings to minimum didn't change anything.

Failclouds aside, I scanned all 6 or 7 containers in the site, and it was almost entirely T1 salvage worth less than 50k per can. ONE of the cans had a little bit of T2 salvage in it, and would have been worth about 20 mil. I started the hacking minigame on this can, and what happens? I move 2 nodes, suppressor. Move 2 nodes teh other way, another suppressor. Take the only other path available and run into a firewall. With their strengths and the suppressors, it was literally impossible to go anywhere. Just to test, I tried hacking the weakest of the three, and failed. It then spawned a cruiser, and I had to leave in my cov ops. After wasting that much time trying to find a site, and then the site still being pretty much broken, I logged off in disgust.

So, in closing...we're 3 days away from launch. I sure hope this isn't the final launch build on SiSi, because:

1) There are still failclouds around each can that make the can-catching failgame completely impossible.
2) Loot value still seems pretty awful, and that's taking into account the total value of each can, when in reality you're likely to get maybe half of that in the lootgame.
3) The hacking minigame is still nothing but a random failfest. If you happen to get suppressors near the start of the hack, you're pretty much done, no matter what you do. Since it is all hidden, there's absolutely NO strategy in avoiding them, it is just pure dumb luck. This is terrible design, esp when the loot value as a whole is pretty bad. If you scan a can and see it has good loot, and then get a literally impossible hack and the can poofs, this just makes you want to uninstall.

My thoughts? Since it clearly seems you guys can't get this right before launch, postpone this feature. It sucks, and everyone has been telling you it sucks. If you push it out in this state and all of the people that don't use SISI find out we've been TELLING you it sucks for weeks, there is likely going to be Incarna-type feedback.

Well, that went much longer than I planned to, but watching you guys ignore feedback on this system for weeks and knowing it is going to launch in 3 days has really disappointed me.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#551 - 2013-06-01 11:10:55 UTC
"Incarna-type"... please. There aren't enough of us for that, and it's losing its meaning with how much everyone's throwing it around lately.
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#552 - 2013-06-01 11:21:43 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
"Incarna-type"... please. There aren't enough of us for that, and it's losing its meaning with how much everyone's throwing it around lately.


When they hype an expansion to be about exploration, people are likely going to try exploration. When said exploration sucks...well, yeah. I'm sure there will be plenty of people WTF'ing.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#553 - 2013-06-01 11:42:21 UTC
Hehaw Jimbojohnson wrote:
3) The hacking minigame is still nothing but a random failfest. If you happen to get suppressors near the start of the hack, you're pretty much done, no matter what you do. Since it is all hidden, there's absolutely NO strategy in avoiding them, it is just pure dumb luck.
In it's current form, yes the hacking game is just random and frustrating. But it has huge potential to be something EPIC. There are so many things that can be done with the system to make it a hell of alot of fun. Unfortunately they didn't include any of those things. Which really is a pity. Because it's going to roll out as this "random failfest", and everyone's first impression is going to be that it sucks ass. When instead it's probably the single best feature of the entire expansion (if/when it gets reworked).

The loot spew on the other hand, adds nothing beneficial or enjoyable to the game. And will most likely be a source of frustration and hatred as CCP introduces it into other areas of EvE as time goes on. I foresee a day when you go to loot wrecks, and they just spew mods all over the place. Cuz wreck looting should be a multiplayer experience!
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#554 - 2013-06-01 11:58:30 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Hehaw Jimbojohnson wrote:
3) The hacking minigame is still nothing but a random failfest. If you happen to get suppressors near the start of the hack, you're pretty much done, no matter what you do. Since it is all hidden, there's absolutely NO strategy in avoiding them, it is just pure dumb luck.
In it's current form, yes the hacking game is just random and frustrating. But it has huge potential to be something EPIC. There are so many things that can be done with the system to make it a hell of alot of fun. Unfortunately they didn't include any of those things. Which really is a pity. Because it's going to roll out as this "random failfest", and everyone's first impression is going to be that it sucks ass. When instead it's probably the single best feature of the entire expansion (if/when it gets reworked).

The loot spew on the other hand, adds nothing beneficial or enjoyable to the game. And will most likely be a source of frustration and hatred as CCP introduces it into other areas of EvE as time goes on. I foresee a day when you go to loot wrecks, and they just spew mods all over the place. Cuz wreck looting should be a multiplayer experience!


While true, "potential" is irrelevant. A lot of things in EVE have had "great potential" for years, that doesn't mean CCP is going to realize that potential. Replacing a currently working (although somewhat boring) exploration system with something that is broken but "has potential" is a terrible idea. Release it when it is ready to be released.

You're right about the loot spew. I still can't understand why they're so insistent on implementing it when feedback has been overwhelmingly negative, and people have made clear it isn't a tuning issue, it is the idea itself that just doesn't work in this kind of game.
Der Rest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#555 - 2013-06-01 13:00:30 UTC

"Really, I just want my T3 to be as good as a T1 ship for running profession sites."


Why using a T3? You cant use them anymore for 3/10 or 4/10. Their time as an one in all exploration vessel are over when you dont farm stuff 5/10 and higher. Odyssey wasn't made for solo explorers (soloing made the exploration feeling more intense for me :/ ) it's more for Ishtar (other HACS or w/e) and scanning alts or groups.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#556 - 2013-06-01 13:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Der Rest wrote:

"Really, I just want my T3 to be as good as a T1 ship for running profession sites."


Why using a T3? You cant use them anymore for 3/10 or 4/10. Their time as an one in all exploration vessel are over when you dont farm stuff 5/10 and higher. Odyssey wasn't made for solo explorers (soloing made the exploration feeling more intense for me :/ ) it's more for Ishtar (other HACS or w/e) and scanning alts or groups.


Some of us have invested quite a bit of time and money into our T3s and would like to continue using them. We're familiar with them and we enjoy flying them. Believe it or not, there are other things in this game than your godforsaken ISK/hr and min/max efficiency ratio. Stop being so blasted Caldari.

When CCP Seagull said that Solo Players were among the groups CCP was going to keep in mind from now on when developing new content, I wonder if she really meant "we're going to find you and we're going to make everything you do encourage you team up or if we can't do that we're going to make you quit." Maybe a little dramatic in my delivery, but still.
Invisusira
Escalated.
Project Gungnir.
#557 - 2013-06-01 13:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Invisusira
CCP Affinity wrote:
Just to clear this up - I fully intend to revisit the clouds in missions issue but that won't happen for Odyssey. The new hacking and archaeology sites DO NOT have mission clouds in them. We have removed all mission/old style clouds from the sites. The new containers have particle effects attached and the issue currently is that in some sites 6 cans are stacked on top of each other and 6 particle effects on top of each other will obviously cause FPS issues :) This has been fixed in some sites and will be fixed in all sites in the coming days.

+1 glad to hear. Between glitches with graphics and FPS issues, clouds have been the absolute bane of many, many, MANY pilots for a loooooong time.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#558 - 2013-06-01 13:33:46 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Some of us have invested quite a bit of time and money into our T3s and would like to continue using them. We're familiar with them and we enjoy flying them. Believe it or not, there are other things in this game than your godforsaken ISK/hr and min/max efficiency ratio. Stop being so blasted Caldari.
Then again, some of us have invested plenty of time and ikies into T3s, and realize that they are overpowered beastboats that are long overdue for a severe beating with a nerfbat (my T3 in particular - the Tengu). The fact that they are so overpowered and can do anything better than any other cruiser or BC, is the sole reason we invested so much time and isk. And yet you want them to be even better, and continue obsoleting other ships. Despite the fact that T3s have never had a bonus to Codebreakers/Analyzers before. Go figure.

Der Rest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#559 - 2013-06-01 13:43:28 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Der Rest wrote:

"Really, I just want my T3 to be as good as a T1 ship for running profession sites."


Why using a T3? You cant use them anymore for 3/10 or 4/10. Their time as an one in all exploration vessel are over when you dont farm stuff 5/10 and higher. Odyssey wasn't made for solo explorers (soloing made the exploration feeling more intense for me :/ ) it's more for Ishtar (other HACS or w/e) and scanning alts or groups.


Some of us have invested quite a bit of time and money into our T3s and would like to continue using them. We're familiar with them and we enjoy flying them. Believe it or not, there are other things in this game than your godforsaken ISK/hr and min/max efficiency ratio. Stop being so blasted Caldari.

When CCP Seagull said that Solo Players were among the groups CCP was going to keep in mind from now on when developing new content, I wonder if she really meant "we're going to find you and we're going to make everything you do encourage you team up or if we can't do that we're going to make you quit." Maybe a little dramatic in my delivery, but still.


I'm using all in one T3's myself, i was just beeing realistic as it is impossible now to use them for all kinds of stuff except 1/10 and 2/10.
I was just saying that exploring in odyssey has written "FU solo all in one ship flying explorers" in big letters all over it.
Der Rest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#560 - 2013-06-01 13:48:25 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Some of us have invested quite a bit of time and money into our T3s and would like to continue using them. We're familiar with them and we enjoy flying them. Believe it or not, there are other things in this game than your godforsaken ISK/hr and min/max efficiency ratio. Stop being so blasted Caldari.
Then again, some of us have invested plenty of time and ikies into T3s, and realize that they are overpowered beastboats that are long overdue for a severe beating with a nerfbat (my T3 in particular - the Tengu). The fact that they are so overpowered and can do anything better than any other cruiser or BC, is the sole reason we invested so much time and isk. And yet you want them to be even better, and continue obsoleting other ships. Despite the fact that T3s have never had a bonus to Codebreakers/Analyzers before. Go figure.


Yeah right why skilling and investing money to get better?
Next time marauders get banned from lvl 4 missions because they are overpowered or w/e.
Believe it or not, this addon is a kick to the nuts for exploring vets.