Ships & Modules

Why?

You know you can deal over 1K dps with a proteus without OH? -no one says it's op

You know all links+titan boost/slaves/named implants and strong skills you can push about 1M EHP on Proteus? -it's op but no one cry about it neither.

Active tank HAM gank Legion is a pure beast, do you see any one crying about it?

Double web armor Loki is a Tengu eater, Large shield booster loki is a Tengu assassin, do you see anyone around cry about it?

How OP Tengu is?- please be my guest and explain me exactly what's going wrong with Tengu and where did it touch your tràlàlà.

No its not. Previously my Ogre2s could stay out. They would usually not get all the aggro from new spawns, depending on where my Domi was etc etc. And they could usually live through the aggro of 1 or 2 friggates until they got around to killing them.

It appears much different now. You really gotta manage your (drone) aggro.



No. You cannot whip your heavies out any longer as long as friggates or crusiers are on the field. THAT YES. Just as intended you kill frigates with small, cruisers/BC with medium and BS (maybe BCs) with Heavies.

Heavies are not useless. You just cannot use them anymore to kill the whole room. You have to manage your drone aggro, pull drones more often and use the right size drones against frigs and cruisers. Beforehand my ogres chewed up everything in a room. Assault frigs to BS. THAT is now over indeed, but it does not make heavies useless in mission running.

What makes Sentries shine is not that heavies are useless. The MJD allows you to fit minimum tank and more dps. Jump to 120K+ distance and pop stuff without breaking a sweat. You can still do missions with small/meds/heavies, jsut as before but its MORE WORK is all. But it is not much more work than managing turret ships.

And i dont think sentries get hit with less damage than heavies. I use remote reps to keep my sentries up and when a BS gets to its optimal range (does not happane often) i find they do take as much damage as heavies.

Anyone who enjoys watching their swarm of 5 angry bees eating stuff in their missions still can do so almost as good as before. With the equivalent work laod to a turret ship pilot. Sentries shine due to the MJD.

There is no need to booster fix a mission myrm

Dual repper with CCCs and matar turrets to taste will take level 4s all day you just have to have time on your hands because the DPS is pretty terrible.



Tengu isn't exactly the best, its great in null because you have roamers and whatnot flushing you out of plexes. So a cruiser align time with a tiny sig and a BS tank is golden.

Machariel, THAT is likely the best mission ship, again, cruiser class sig, and speed and 70km range with barrage if needed. The downfall of both being ammo, 10,000 rounds on a mach is about 4-5 good level 4s if you aren't blitzing, and the Tengu is just behind it.

The simple fact that you've trained Cruiser to L5 to get into a Strat Cruiser means you can get a LOT of awesome ships for a LOT less isk that do the same damned thing, sometimes better.

You decide what that means to you. And no, I really don't use a Tengu anymore for L4 missions; only rarely. And no, I don't cap inject any of my fits (because I don't need to).

I can't thank you guys enough! I went with this one:


5x 250mm Protoype Gauss Gun

10MN Afterburner I
Drone Navigation Computer I
3x Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array

Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
2x Prototype Armor (Mission Damage)
2x Prototype Armor (Mission Damage)
Drone Damage Amplifier I

2x Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

5x T2 Drone of Mission Inflict Type



Athough this may not be the best build it works for my skill level and I was able to do 4x L3s and make about 30M in 1.5hr. That is a lot for me.

I can't say how much I appreciate all the input and discussion on this thread! Thanks again!

If you're using an XL booster on your Tengu you shouldn't fly one, it's a terrible fit for lvl4's for sanctums or whatnot, and no that doesn't makes it OP, it's only you who thinks that but I can prove you everyday you're wrong.

To fit an XL booster on it that means you can barely fit a DCU and no launchers, where did you got that awesome battleclinic terrible fit? -you can't be serious with that one, tell me you're kidding me.



@Bael McVaeden

What people not flying those, fitting those, not doing missions in those, not doing null anomalies in those or PVP'n in those can't realize or understand is the word versatility.

It's not the best at whatever, it's just the BEST OPTION if you consider all the negative points you might have using something else and the strong points you can get by using specific Tengu fits.

A Machariel is hundreds times better to clean sanctums than a full pimp fitted Tengu, why? -while you're limited in dps with Tengu you can win a lot in survivability by adding speed and Tank while the Machariel not only you WILL add both but on top your dps grows exponentially.
Price difference in between both? -a pimpy Tengu is about 4B a pimpy Machariel is more about 7, how many people do you think put that much isk in a mission ship and push skills to the real top (all 5)?

PVP- Tengu was and still is good with 100MN fits but you can't deliver it's supposed pimpy 1K dps with hams on a normal pvp fit, that's just fantasies from people who don't have a single idea what they're talking about. The new Drake or even the Navy Drake yet to come are far, very far better for pvp than Tengu.

Now where does this Tengu hate comes from? -easy

Weapons mechanics makes it so the lower signature radius you have and higher speed is equivalent to TANK, Loki does this too and even better.
Guns firepower, dmg projection and fitting slots to increase dmg is something you need to consider, so in this point too Tengu is not perfect but it's probably one of the best because missile specifics.

Then in PVP, put all together a top skilled pilot and good at pvp in a 4B+ fitted Tengu add pirate implants, add higher value combat boosters and the mandatory boosting T3 with also boosters/implants and fit for several billions.
You have the strongest possible combination of causes to effects. It's intended game mechanic and works too with other ships but Tengu haters being no brainer people for most of them, they immediately claim how op it is when in reality this ship is just exactly what it's meant to be and all other T3 should be in line with.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know perfectly well and completely agree in a single: T3 command subs and the fact Tengu is actually the only T3 which command sub makes it the only possible optimal choice for shield fleets, and this is what is wrong but not only about Tengu, all T3's should never ever be able to use command subs and instead fill another role.

Now on topic, you're getting better with your fit and props to you. Keep the good work going and don't forget to use Evemon for your skill planning or EFT&Pyfa to help you out figure how to better fit your ship accordingly to your skills.

forget the 75m3 bandwidth

mixing light, medium & heavy drones is no different to mixing s/m/l turrets on the same hull (imho)

load your dronebay with 5x hobgoblins, and 5x hammerheads
use the hobgoblins on frigate/destroyers
use the hammerheads on cruisers up





EFT might say that mixed drones do more DPS

in reality
your 2 Hvy Drones are too slow for frigates & destroyers ... typical applied DPS vs small targets is close to 0
your 2 medium drones are the most versatile, as they will be able to track & hit all target sizes
your 1 light drone will also track & shoot all target sizes ... but against large targets its dps is insignificant


with the recent changes to NPC ai and how they react to drones
your max effective range for using drones is different for heavies than it is for lights & mediums

Heavy Drones you need to keep within 15-20km for agro management
Lights & mediums can be used at 25km+
due to the different flight speeds of the 3 drone classes, mixing them is bad.

I hop to 120+ distance to NPC rats and let my Bouncers kill everything. With 2 omnis my warden track frigates up until 10km just fine. So i dont need small drones at all. Cus if i let rats come closer than 10km to me in a sentry mission ship (within 3 minutes of MJD recharge) i have done something wrong. Your tank with sentries is the fact that you are 120+ km away from the (spawning) NPCs and kill them before they come near their damage range. No need for small drones with a sentry drones.

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I should have read through the entire post. Jester makes a valid point, but I still like to carry some lights as a security blanket.

As you get more comfortable with L3s you can drop a hardener or 2 for more drone damage amplifiers. Good luck with your L3s!