These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

RIDDLE: What has no weight, 2 faces, a brown nose, 1 big mouth, 1 big head, 18 feet but wont walk?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#141 - 2011-10-20 17:50:13 UTC
Harm Pit wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Just for your reference, the current CSM has achieved more than all the previous CSM committees combined.


Indeed, no Devs lost their jobs partly as a result of the previous CSMs actions


They lost their jobs as a result of years of poor management. The CSM didn't run CCP out of money.
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#142 - 2011-10-20 17:50:33 UTC
Innominate wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Innominate wrote:
The blind irrational rage in this thread makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


True, I haven't see this many CSM post in a GD thread in days, they must be angry about something.



Hah you mad, and don't even seem to understand why.


Am I making you warm and fuzzy inside? That's cute Blink
Avon
#143 - 2011-10-20 17:50:50 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Harm Pit wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Just for your reference, the current CSM has achieved more than all the previous CSM committees combined.


Indeed, no Devs lost their jobs partly as a result of the previous CSMs actions


Yea, give me evidence that the CSM's actions have caused loss of jobs.
Correlation does not imply causation.


Yea, give me evidence that the CSM's actions have achieved anything.
Correlation does not imply causation.
Avon
#144 - 2011-10-20 17:52:24 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Harm Pit wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Just for your reference, the current CSM has achieved more than all the previous CSM committees combined.


Indeed, no Devs lost their jobs partly as a result of the previous CSMs actions


They lost their jobs as a result of years of poor management. The CSM didn't run CCP out of money.



No, but they sure blew smoke up their arse while they were doing it.
Harm Pit
Highwaymen
#145 - 2011-10-20 17:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Harm Pit
Innominate wrote:
Harm Pit wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Just for your reference, the current CSM has achieved more than all the previous CSM committees combined.


Indeed, no Devs lost their jobs partly as a result of the previous CSMs actions


They lost their jobs as a result of years of poor management. The CSM didn't run CCP out of money.


A little of colum A , and a little of colum B.

One things for sure though, when the next CSM junket rolls into Reijkavic and 10 jumped up high fiving drunken gurning beard faces get out of the minibus at CCP HQ, its gonna be diffucult for some of the unculled staff not to throttle them.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2011-10-20 17:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
OP,
Has it crossed your mind that the lay-offs may have something to do with WOD draining CCP's resources too thin for EvE and Dust and not so much about Jita protest or CSM visiting Iceland.

Developing 3 games at same time would be great challenge to much more bigger companies than CCP. Eve started to lose subscriptions because players didn't get bang for their buck. These lay-offs are probably inevitable results of global recession and corporate decisions to commit to WoD.

Jita protest and all the other recent events have been eye openers for many, but they are not the reason why things are how they are today. As far I see it, what Hilmar is doing now - he is doing to fix the bad decisions and save the company.

Many people in here need some kind of reality check.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Reverand Pastor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2011-10-20 17:56:33 UTC
So basically half the CSM declared jihad on ice miners (there are threads everywhere if he cant remember this) and then turn to ccp and brainstorm why people are not playing? Its so crazy its genius
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#148 - 2011-10-20 17:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: David Carel
Avon wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Harm Pit wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Just for your reference, the current CSM has achieved more than all the previous CSM committees combined.


Indeed, no Devs lost their jobs partly as a result of the previous CSMs actions


Yea, give me evidence that the CSM's actions have caused loss of jobs.
Correlation does not imply causation.


Yea, give me evidence that the CSM's actions have achieved anything.
Correlation does not imply causation.


The fact that the CSM have actively lobbied for changes as opposed to CCP refocusing on WiS on their own will.
I lack sufficient data to say whether subscription drops have caused any change but ~5000 subscriptions is nothing for a company like CCP (2% drop in income).
The fact that CCPs loan term ended ($12 million) was much more likely the immediate cause for the layoffs as they needed to convince the investors to, well, invest more.
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#149 - 2011-10-20 18:00:21 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

you actually typed all that.


and you actually typed all that... pathertic.

Vile... the Lap Dog of the Pretender Mittani. Defenders of Theft from the Common Pilots of Eve.
The general Eve population is waking up. Your days are numbered.
Dunbar Hulan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2011-10-20 18:01:20 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
I wonder where the rest of the CSM is, you only ever hear from the same bunch of muppets. Did they give up and forgot to tell everyone?


They'll be in their "Command Centers" hastily creating alts to populate this thread with "If it wasn't for the CSM blah blah blah."

 ** Manchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius**
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#151 - 2011-10-20 18:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: David Carel
Comrade Commizzar wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

you actually typed all that.


and you actually typed all that... pathertic.

Vile... the Lap Dog of the Pretender Mittani. Defenders of Theft from the Common Pilots of Eve.
The general Eve population is waking up. Your days are numbered.


Hey, hypocrisy. Always nice to have.
(Hint: It's the word pathetic)
Raeloth Draenor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2011-10-20 18:09:09 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
This is a serious question and I'm obligated to respond seriously. Thank you.


Keno Skir wrote:
Aside from the OP or any of the replies so far. In your oppinion could the thousands of dollars used to fly the CSM across the world and back be put to better use paying the wages of the employees who have been let go?


In a heartbeat. Give me this option and have it implemented and I think every single one of us would love to give everything in this game up to get those people gainfully employed. This was a gut shot to all of us and we feel for the employees who lost their jobs. This sucks plain and simple.


Quote:

I'm not trying to suggest that griefers and in-game nastys shouldnt be on the CSM, nor am i suggesting everyone in goon should be removed because they apparently represent all that is bad in eve (NOT my oppinion, just the word on the street).

I'm not trying to attack any CSM personally, i'd like to be flown to iceland for beer and eve-talk too. I'm merely suggesting that some roles at CCP are more valuable to the game as a whole than the CSM, yet money that could be used to pay their wages is being spent sending the CSM on holiday. Back when the EvE community felt they needed a voice inside CCP the CSM was the answer we were given.


If I were told today that giving up the trip to Iceland would put some of the people that we've become friends with due to our close working relationship back to work I would do it without hesitation and with a big smile on my face. I feel the work we do is valuable but this isn't a video game, this is peoples lives who got uprooted.


Quote:

Do you on the CSM really believe you and your expenses are the best use of money right now for EvE?

Try to look at it from the perspective of someone paying for those trips while they watch the game sit stagnant.


The face to face meetings are huge. They help improve the game in big ways. They are valuable. Not as valuable as the jobs that were lost. Those jobs represent families and futures. We don't regret the work we've done to help make the game the best it can be for the players, but I'd resign right this second if that resignation resulted in one single job at CCP being restored.


Sadly this isn't the case.







I wish the OP and those raging against the CSM would sit back and really comprehend what Vile rat just posted here. I don't know the feelings of the other CSM members but I can't imagine it's far off from what he posted here. People need to get some perspective about what the CSM does, and how CCP utilizes it. The CSM is helping all of us 1 meeting with CCP at a time.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2011-10-20 18:13:04 UTC
Harm Pit wrote:
ANSWER: The Council of Stellar Management


It is simply not acceptable that in times where sacked CCP Devs are literally sat in their pyjamas crying into their cereal, that the money is available to fly these people to Iceland to ineffectually posture, pad their CVs, get drunk and try to maintain the delusion of grandeur they labour under.

This has even started to become clear to themselves. Only days ago they crowed and gloated over the hilmarrrrgh "apology" blog, fighting amongst themselves to claim the biggest piece of the credit cake. Now, with 120 sackings, they have all developed SSS (sloping shoulder syndrome) as they seek to blame each other and even the players who flocked to their call for protest. Even the Chair of the CSM has let his nihilistic facade slip a little as the guilt hits him as to his role in the sacking of his great drinking buddies at CCP.

A farce from day one, the CSM was launched not in an oversight role as publicised by hillmar, but pre nerfed as a "communication conduit" and soon degenerated into childish squables (Constantine vs that goon guy) and rule breaking (trassler and that ankhatamapeonama bird). The 250 issue backlog of agreed issues that CCP routinley ignored stands evidence as to their innefectuality. Many people spent many many wasted hours trying to push issues through the frameowrk CCP gave us to see it drop out of site.

In times of plenty, where vanity project rap videos and dev bands were de-rigeur at CCP HQ - the CSM was an affordable plaything. But in these times of economic woe it is nothing short of outrageous it still exist.

12 world wide plane tickets, hotel fees, meals, and incidental costs many times a year would have paid the wages of some of the Devs who have been given the boot.


Particulaly considering the reported peenuts many Devs reportedly accept as wages due to their love of the game and company.

CCP are tightening their belts, and now is the perfect time to tighten the metaphorical noose around the CSM. All the clamour for CCP management to resign for failure works with the CSM as well. They have failed. The CSM, in its 6 incarnations, have presided over a near terminal decline in the game. In times of honour, resignation would have been the honourable action in response to abject failure.

It is clear that these "individuals" who inhabit the CSM will not take that route. They need to be sacked. NOW. Hilmar.. get shot of them!





All I see in this post, really, is a bunch of baseless accusations which are nothing more than your personal opinion presented as fact.

My research indicates that it costs roughly 2000 USD to pay for a round trip plane ticket and hotel rooms for a CSM member in the US. If there are 12 CSM members sent to Iceland, then this is 24,000 USD per trip to Iceland. The starting wages for a Computer Scientist with a Bachelor's degree is around $40,000 to $50,000 annually. This means if you have 2 trips a year normally, CCP could save *1* developer's job. And I am not very certain that any EVE developers are actually losing their jobs - it's mainly community representatives and WoD developers from what I have seen.

Or in other words, your argument that the CSM are solely responsible for the loss of some CCP jobs is baseless. You are merely making things up so that you can be hostile towards them.

I also do not see where the CSM are accusing each other of being responsible for CCP's economic problems, nor did I ever see the CSM trying to steal the glory from each other regarding Hilmar's apology. All in all, your OP is full of slander and misinformation. Yes, you do have some truthful statements in there (the few CSM members who violated their NDA to give themselves or their corp an unfair advantage in the game, for example), but their usefulness as rhetoric is rendered pointless by you simply saying things which are just plain frankly not true.
Misaka Todako
Close Proximity
#154 - 2011-10-20 18:13:53 UTC
Yes, lets not be mad at CCP's management, who overstretched themselves financially.

lets not be mad at them for their terrible direction with eve, bad business decisions, or their poor choice in choosing people to let go.

Lets instead be mad at a player elected council of people who effectively saved this game before it started hemorrhaging subscribers.

Lets be mad at them for getting CCP management to realize that their biggest source of income was EVE, and EVE players were starting to bail. For getting proper resources allocated to the game we love and play every day. For saving eve from the death spiral that so many MMOs dive into and never recover.

Damn those CSM. They should have just let CCP do what they were doing.

Didn't want to play this game anyway.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#155 - 2011-10-20 18:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: David Carel
Wow, looks like I managed to shut these imbeciles up, at least for a while.

Edit: 20 minutes and no post from one of these mouthbreathers? Now come on, I enjoy proving you wrong.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#156 - 2011-10-20 18:32:23 UTC
this is a thread with a lot of bad posters

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#157 - 2011-10-20 18:33:35 UTC
Reverand Pastor wrote:
So basically half the CSM declared jihad on ice miners (there are threads everywhere if he cant remember this) and then turn to ccp and brainstorm why people are not playing? Its so crazy its genius


man i never get tired of laughing at idiots and this place is like an idiot fountain

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#158 - 2011-10-20 18:34:03 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
this is a thread with a lot of bad posters
Jalapeno Life Preserver
#159 - 2011-10-20 18:35:59 UTC
This is probably the most important thing these people (nerds with god complexes) will do in their lives (The CSM I mean)

Just imagine if you realized that being on the CSM was the highlight of your life? How desperate would you become? What kind of crisis would exist internally for you? These are people with no moral compass, look how they just got their spaceship game drinking buddies fired. I just don't want anyone else to die
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#160 - 2011-10-20 18:37:16 UTC
Jalapeno Life Preserver wrote:
This is probably the most important thing these people (nerds with god complexes) will do in their lives (The CSM I mean)

Just imagine if you realized that being on the CSM was the highlight of your life? How desperate would you become? What kind of crisis would exist internally for you? These are people with no moral compass, look how they just got their spaceship game drinking buddies fired. I just don't want anyone else to die



Learn about what you're posting before you post.