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IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#121 - 2013-05-22 15:22:30 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.



Of course.

And using a pneumatic hammer to drive 20 nails in with 1 trigger press would be automation.


Probably a case to case decision. Running a mining bot requires at least one click, too. The click to start the bot. So in a way you still run in manually, it just automates a lot of other things from that point on.
Like a multiboxer, maybe you have to do a lot of clicks more, but there still is automation, espacially on a scale you wouldnt be able to reproduce as a single human being. Or has anyone tried to actually play 10 accounts in a PvE side simultanously?

Yay 10 years! :D
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2013-05-22 15:22:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
It's pretty simple.

Replication is copying, repeating, right?

Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?
…and ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything.

So yes, very very simple.

Quote:
Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation
…if it did away with the human input, which it doesn't. So it isn't. This explains why it's been explicitly allowed for ages by CCP — you know, the final arbiters of the CCP EULA?

Ellen Thrace wrote:
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were automated with 0 human input. 1 account had human input. Automation on 19 accounts, replicated from 1 account.

Very very simple.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2013-05-22 15:41:22 UTC
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.



Of course.

And using a pneumatic hammer to drive 20 nails in with 1 trigger press would be automation.


Probably a case to case decision. Running a mining bot requires at least one click, too. The click to start the bot. So in a way you still run in manually, it just automates a lot of other things from that point on.
Like a multiboxer, maybe you have to do a lot of clicks more, but there still is automation, espacially on a scale you wouldnt be able to reproduce as a single human being. Or has anyone tried to actually play 10 accounts in a PvE side simultanously?



Yep that's my point. Programs such as isboxer have some very cool elements I like. Like screen placement etc.

That simplifies the actually use of multiboxing.

Replicating clicks imo is bad. However, as stated, the rule is not enforced.

Which is why we have this thread and it hasn't gone away yet.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Danni stark
#124 - 2013-05-22 15:42:41 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Which is why we have this thread and it hasn't gone away yet.

no, that's not why we keep having this thread.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2013-05-22 15:44:22 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Which is why we have this thread and it hasn't gone away yet.

no, that's not why we keep having this thread.



Well, I think you should reread the original post and figure that one out for yourself then. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else why they do things.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-05-22 15:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
This is cool. So with ISBoxer I could have 10 accounts running 10 snipe BS or those new attack BC snipers and it'll lock and fire all my ships on some poor war target , blowing him to little tiny bits in two clicks of the mouse?

Edit: thinking of this functionality if my ships are separated by distance and there's a neutral ship near my target isn't there a big possibility that I might lock the neutral ship, or does ISBoxer have some AI where it automatically locks the same ship my primary account locks?

Edit 2: nm it uses overview of course. Long as they are set up the same it locks same.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Valari Nala Zena
Perkone
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-05-22 15:58:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
This is cool. So with ISBoxer I could have 10 accounts running 10 snipe BS or those new attack BC snipers and it'll lock and fire all my ships on some poor war target , blowing him to little tiny bits in two clicks of the mouse?


Or just, y'know: http://i.imgur.com/egFbwL5.jpg
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#128 - 2013-05-22 16:02:20 UTC
Interesting. I should look into this ISBoxer thing.

I atm get by with just multiple screens and G700 mouse which allows me to turn on all hardeners, recall drones & reload and other such simple things with a single button press for each account. But it would be nice if I could just do one press and turn on all hardeneres on all accounts without having to visit each of them for that.

As far as legality goes, its not the software that is against eula or within eula, its what you do with it. I'm pretty sure some of the things you can do with ISBoxer will get you banned same way as some of the things you can do with Logitech G700 drivers or G15 keyboard can get you banned.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#129 - 2013-05-22 16:27:45 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:


Ellen Thrace wrote:
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were replicated with 1 human input.

Very very simple.
Fixed your post. Very very simple.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#130 - 2013-05-22 16:37:51 UTC
I can't believe I let myself get dragged into this conversation.

I'm going back to my mining operation.

Fly safe and don't forget to have fun :-)
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2013-05-22 16:46:05 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:


Ellen Thrace wrote:
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were replicated with 1 human input.

Very very simple.
Fixed your post. Very very simple.



You ignored the portion that involves a program. Please do not edit my posts.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#132 - 2013-05-22 17:07:47 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were replicated with 1 human input.

Very very simple.
Fixed your post. Very very simple.



You ignored the portion that involves a program. Please do not edit my posts.
You ignored the part where it requires human input to work. Please do not be disingenuous.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-05-22 17:10:11 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were replicated with 1 human input.

Very very simple.
Fixed your post. Very very simple.



You ignored the portion that involves a program. Please do not edit my posts.
You ignored the part where it requires human input to work. Please do not be disingenuous.



I did in fact mention that the one account used human input.

Please do not be facetious with your misuse of terminologies.

Saying 1 human inputted sequence followed by 19 automated actions is not "disengenuous".

It is accurate.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-05-22 17:10:56 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were automated with 0 human input. 1 account had human input. Automation on 19 accounts, replicated from 1 account.

Very very simple.



Because people cannot read.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#135 - 2013-05-22 17:13:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did in fact mention that the one account used human input.

Please do not be facetious with your misuse of terminologies.

Saying 1 human inputted sequence followed by 19 automated actions is not "disengenuous".

It is accurate.
You were being disingenuous. You said.
Murk Paradox wrote:
19 accounts were automated with 0 human input.
Which is incorrect. It requires 1 human input to work, not 0.

Which means 1 input is replicated. But thanks for posting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2013-05-22 17:19:16 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did in fact mention that the one account used human input.

Please do not be facetious with your misuse of terminologies.

Saying 1 human inputted sequence followed by 19 automated actions is not "disengenuous".

It is accurate.
You were being disingenuous. You said.
Murk Paradox wrote:
19 accounts were automated with 0 human input.
Which is incorrect. It requires 1 human input to work, not 0.

Which means 1 input is replicated. But thanks for posting.



20 accounts. 1,2, skip a few, 19, 20.

1 is inputted using isboxer, and that PROGRAM replicates the action across the 19 OTHER accounts.

The human, clicked the button once.

The program, performed the actions across the other accounts.

Now you're being disingenuous.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2013-05-22 17:20:58 UTC
Please stop trying to troll the thread down to locked status Mag's. I do not want to see another thread like this pop up yet again so we can regurgitate your false pretenses.

(If you think people keep reposting threads because they get resolved, you are in fact a dolt.)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#138 - 2013-05-22 17:27:11 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did in fact mention that the one account used human input.

Please do not be facetious with your misuse of terminologies.

Saying 1 human inputted sequence followed by 19 automated actions is not "disengenuous".

It is accurate.
You were being disingenuous. You said.
Murk Paradox wrote:
19 accounts were automated with 0 human input.
Which is incorrect. It requires 1 human input to work, not 0.

Which means 1 input is replicated. But thanks for posting.



20 accounts. 1,2, skip a few, 19, 20.

1 is inputted using isboxer, and that PROGRAM replicates the action across the 19 OTHER accounts.

The human, clicked the button once.

The program, performed the actions across the other accounts.

Now you're being disingenuous.

And you are welcome for posting. Also, I included a free spelling lesson for gratuity.
1 human input replicated by the program, not automated. But thanks for posting.

Oh and lol at your spelling lesson, that was also rather disingenuous. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Randi Fleetstalker
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-05-22 17:27:36 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
You ignored the portion that involves a program. Please do not edit my posts.

I think what you're consistently missing is that the fact that ISBoxer is a program isn't really relevant to what you're saying regarding the EULA / ToS / third-party policy.

The question isn't whether "automation" is present or not; in fact, pretty much anything you do on your computer boils down to automation at some level. So people loooooove to make this argument, "ohhh you hit one button and two things come out, AUTOMATION! SCARY!" But you say this without realizing that you can't actually write software that doesn't do "automation". We're "automatically" doing things on your CPU, your GPU, your hard drives, etc.

In fact, "Automation" is not even mentioned in EVE's EULA or Terms of Use, and I would recommend you review them because.. well, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means." "Botting" on the other hand, which is absolutely different from this loosely applied "Automation" term, is explicitly prohibited in the Third-Party Policies.

As others have pointed out in this thread, exactly what you're complaining about has been done without a program. Zhek Kromtor posted his hardware multiboxing setup years ago, and connected mice and buttons together using wooden dowels. This clearly demonstrated that not only was it possible to do without software, but also that software that performs the same function without otherwise violating the EULA/ToS does not constitute an "Unfair advantage". It's pretty hard to ban for using the hardware, so why should they apply a different rule just to software that is not doing anything wrong?

You should either be trying to argue that the EULA/ToS/Third-party policy should be changed to fit your particular viewpoint on this activity, or switch to talking about something that is actually covered in the rules.

Carry on.. ;)
Ginger Barbarella
#140 - 2013-05-22 17:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Anyone care to bet on whether IsBoxer will suddenly be made against EULA in light of what CCP is trying to accomplish with the "new and improved" launcher? Twisted

Edit: mental masturbation in this thread aside, it's not in CCP's best interested to OUTRIGHT say something is against they EULA or not (ie, EveMon, EFT, etc) despite both GMs comments noted in this thread. One piece of software will only get singled out when it becomes a hinderance to CCPs overall goals (like the goals of the new launcher).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac