These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

First post First post First post
Author
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2013-05-21 21:04:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation.

That doesn't make it different.

One requires human input to do something.
The other does not.
How is that not a difference?

More importantly, since one requires human input, it's allowed. Since the other does not, it's not. It's very very simple, and the you'd have to have very blurred vision to not be able to distinguish between the two with such a blinding difference to set the two apart.



It's pretty simple.

Replication is copying, repeating, right?

Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?

Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation since you are not clicking that button more than once to result in more clicks.(which arbitrarily do not require human input to be definitive, careful with your absolutes).

A 3rd party program does it.

You are right, it is VERY very simple.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-05-21 21:08:32 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


To whom? To you? No space taken. To CCP? Not locked yet, so that disputes that. Plus, it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. So far the only ISD content on this thread has been to contribute.

Maybe you should reevaluate your own self worth? I dunno, not up to me decide, but thanks for joining in the discussion!


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2743356#post2743356

**** me, you were trolling that thread hard enough, how did you miss the glaring message telling you that you were wrong?



Your link resulted in this verbatim quote-

"Hey guys, I've been asked to relay this statement.

We currently have no plans to change our current policy on this issue.We always take all feedback into account and will discuss this further internally."

This isn't a "you are right and I am wrong" situation. It proves us both right and both wrong, but that's not the point.

If you want to use a quote to prove anything confrontationally, atleast use one that doesn't conflict with itself.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Danni stark
#83 - 2013-05-21 21:10:12 UTC
please, you know exactly what it means, you trolled that thread long enough to know what it means better than any one else.

honestly, if your job is that boring, get a new one. i know you only troll while you're at work, you admitted as much in a previous thread.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-05-21 21:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Danni stark wrote:
please, you know exactly what it means, you trolled that thread long enough to know what it means better than any one else.

honestly, if your job is that boring, get a new one. i know you only troll while you're at work, you admitted as much in a previous thread.



Pay my bills, pay my rent, or find a way to contribute to my life.

Otherwise, no.

Whether I know what it means or not is moot.

They are your words. Not mine.

I am fully aware of what it means, that does not change the kneejerk reactions people use nor does it mean I am ok with such closemindedness.

Call it emergent forum gameplay if it makes you sleep better at night.

Since I don't pay your bills, or contribute to your life, I simply won't care.

I still do not like what isboxer represents, so until CCP says I cannot complain about it, I will how I see fit.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Danni stark
#85 - 2013-05-21 21:22:22 UTC
clearly you're working too hard, your trolling is poor today.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#86 - 2013-05-21 21:35:13 UTC
I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day.
Lady Areola Fappington
#87 - 2013-05-21 21:59:19 UTC
Personal opinions, I'd class replication under automation, as it isn't player effort that generates the command. 30 ISboxer fleet, you may generate one F1, but the 29 others are coming from a program. It's parallel commands, where a bot is serial commands. I just don't see a difference between replicating one command 30 times, and issuing the same command 30 times in a row using a program.

However, it's my personal opinion, and I don't run CCP. I'll voice said opinion in appropriate venues, and should CCP solicit feedback, I'll be sure to give it. In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Jason Xado
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-05-21 22:01:01 UTC
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-05-21 22:08:09 UTC
Replicating one command isn't against the EULA also. For example you can make a G15 macro's to replicate and not violate the EULA.

Trying to confuse replication or duplication with botting is just willful ignorance on peoples part. The first 2 require a person at the computer playing, while botting does not.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Lazlow Kushrinada
The Study of Wumbology
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#90 - 2013-05-21 22:24:12 UTC
What the hell are threads like this still doing on the forums!!! MY GOD PEOPLE

CCP has made it clear and apparent that ISboxer doesn't break the rules. Now when isboxer DRASTICALLY changes and suddenly starts breaking the rules out of the blue, feel free to re-visit the discussion.

Would you rather CCP start micro-transactioning off the game. Make you pay more to win more? This is their work around for just that. Combined with PLEX CCP still brings in money, no one has a completely unfair advantage(And I am so sick of people dreaming up rediculously specific scenarios where isboxer might help ya out). Having more accounts is not against the rules. Using software to -ASSIST- in the usage of those accounts is not against the rules.

BOTTING IS

And like Sentamon mentioned, anyone thinking there is no difference is just plain ignorant. I really wish people would get banned for starting these threads, as it is borderline on intentionally enraging the community. As a matter of fact, I think we should all start filing petitions against anyone starting these threads for harassment. Nothing has changed, so that is all this is, harassment against Isboxer users. Debate should be left up to CCP only unless something actually -Changes- with the isboxer software.

And for the record, I manage three accounts without isboxer. I have tried Isboxer and agree it makes managing multiple clients much easier, including streamlining the actual punishment it takes on your machine, reducing heat and cpu usage as a side effect. However after 7 days I stopped using it and continue to run three accounts on full manual, and see no problem doing either. To some extent I hope that with CCP's stance towards 'multies' I hope they incorporate isboxer style technology into their base client in the future, that would surely stop this non-sense.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-05-21 22:24:39 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day.


Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.


Jason Xado wrote:
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.


But you can't use 40 hammers at the same time, can you ?

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”

Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#92 - 2013-05-21 22:29:12 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank.


Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome Twisted

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#93 - 2013-05-21 22:41:27 UTC

This is the thread that never ends.
It just goes on and on my friends.
Some people started posting in it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue posting in it forever just because . .


For all the slow people and the jealous:

Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.

Replication = User input from a human being at a keyboard is copied multiple times in real-time. if there is no one at the keyboard, no replication can occur.





There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Lady Areola Fappington
#94 - 2013-05-21 22:44:09 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:


Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome Twisted



A WoW player moving to EVE can be..quite delightful in the tear department. The WoW penchant for displaying and showing off shiny things will make ship scanning unneeded.

According to WoW playing spouse, the most common response will be "If EVE were more like WoW in X way, it'd have so many more subs"...wait. Looks like we've figured out how to figure out the WoW kids in EVE. Anyone who pulls "sub numbers" as an argument...

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Jason Xado
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-05-21 22:46:13 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day.


Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.


Jason Xado wrote:
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.


But you can't use 40 hammers at the same time, can you ?


Yes, I can make a hammer with 40 heads on it and use it on 40 nails.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2013-05-21 22:56:46 UTC

As long as CCP gets money, they don't care.

Unless there is a mass-exodus of single-box players, or prevents single-box players from being competative or interested in Eve, then they will care.

In the end it's a balance between "which combination of players gives us the most money."

Ppl with 10 accts rarely pay for all of them with cash, they use plex.

This plex is typically paid by people who don't run 10 accounts.

Eve is quickly turning into a korean mmo, where people buy virtual items for RL cash. "Want a carrier? 2 plexes." while the peasant armies of multiboxers mine the minerals for it.

My 2 cents
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-05-22 02:00:43 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank.


Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome Twisted


Your ship needs a 200 fitting score before you can join my fleet GAWD!!!!! (past WoW players will know what i am talking about)


lol more WoW players = more people to scam and more ships to blow up :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#98 - 2013-05-22 02:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
It's pretty simple.

Replication is copying, repeating, right?

Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?
…and ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything.

So yes, very very simple.

Quote:
Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation
…if it did away with the human input, which it doesn't. So it isn't. This explains why it's been explicitly allowed for ages by CCP — you know, the final arbiters of the CCP EULA?

Ellen Thrace wrote:
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-05-22 02:42:57 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:


Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.



Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input"

Quote:
au•to•ma•tion (ˌɔ təˈmeɪ ʃən)
n.
1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM.


It has already been discussed on another thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#100 - 2013-05-22 02:46:31 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:


Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.



Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input"

Quote:
au•to•ma•tion (ˌɔ təˈmeɪ ʃən)
n.
1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM.


It has already been discussed on another thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614



In the context of why CCP allows replication (i.e. isboxer) and not automation (a bot) that's exactly what it means.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.