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Rogue drones, and their deficiencies

First post
Author
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-20 11:38:50 UTC
First,
id like to state that if rogue drones were designed to be the poorest npc to rat, then this post doesnt matter. But, if all npc were supposed to be equal, then we have an issue.

In bounty rat space, a sanctum will yeild between 28 and 34 mil depending on if you do the ring or the station. So you fly in, kill everything, and then you get a bounty tic that adds up to 28-34 mil when youve completed it. if you go back and salvage and loot it all, its upwards of 40 mil, sometimes higher depending on the randomness of valuable loot drops. Of course salvaging increases the time it takes to rat.
We move to drone space, where you have to salvage everything in order to get paid, which to completely salvage a sight, focusing on nothing but salvaing, takes about 8 minutes per sight. So, The average horde, equivilent to a sanctum, yeilds 29.2 mil in compounds and alloys based on jita prices. Seems fair. However, lets break some things down.
I can run 4 sanctums in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo
I can run 4 hordes in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo
So, in bounty space, in one hour i make approx 120 mil, a little less but approximately.
In roge drone space, i have to spend the first hour killing, then almost another 40 minutes salvaging, warping sight to sight, docking and unloading. that extra fourty minutes is atleast another 60 mil in bounty space. In addition, if it were apples to apples and i salvaged bounty rats, that fouty minutes of salvaging would give me an extra 40 mil in loot and salvage material. So, its like a compounded deficiency for my effort.

On a final note,
Drone sentient spawns, are the worst in the game. I actually loose isk by having them come up. They yeild drone components worth less then normal compounds and alloys, and their salvage is worth less than a single armor plate.

My resolve, drone hordes should be worth 40-43 mil per horde to compensate for the increased salvage time and lack of extras like modules.

Anyone else have thoughts on this.

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2011-10-20 11:42:13 UTC
Thank you for the feedback. How would you feel about this idea?

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Signal11th
#3 - 2011-10-20 11:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
myFORUMalt alts wrote:
First,
id like to state that if rogue drones were designed to be the poorest npc to rat, then this post doesnt matter. But, if all npc were supposed to be equal, then we have an issue.

In bounty rat space, a sanctum will yeild between 28 and 34 mil depending on if you do the ring or the station. So you fly in, kill everything, and then you get a bounty tic that adds up to 28-34 mil when youve completed it. if you go back and salvage and loot it all, its upwards of 40 mil, sometimes higher depending on the randomness of valuable loot drops. Of course salvaging increases the time it takes to rat.
We move to drone space, where you have to salvage everything in order to get paid, which to completely salvage a sight, focusing on nothing but salvaing, takes about 8 minutes per sight. So, The average horde, equivilent to a sanctum, yeilds 29.2 mil in compounds and alloys based on jita prices. Seems fair. However, lets break some things down.
I can run 4 sanctums in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo
I can run 4 hordes in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo
So, in bounty space, in one hour i make approx 120 mil, a little less but approximately.
In roge drone space, i have to spend the first hour killing, then almost another 40 minutes salvaging, warping sight to sight, docking and unloading. that extra fourty minutes is atleast another 60 mil in bounty space. In addition, if it were apples to apples and i salvaged bounty rats, that fouty minutes of salvaging would give me an extra 40 mil in loot and salvage material. So, its like a compounded deficiency for my effort.

On a final note,
Drone sentient spawns, are the worst in the game. I actually loose isk by having them come up. They yeild drone components worth less then normal compounds and alloys, and their salvage is worth less than a single armor plate.

My resolve, drone hordes should be worth 40-43 mil per horde to compensate for the increased salvage time and lack of extras like modules.

Anyone else have thoughts on this.



Move?

Serious note though the sanctums I have ever run have only yeiled 24-30mil(both types, I usually get 24/25 out of ring barring faction spawn an 30 from the other one) so can you tell me where your 28-34 ones are?

Like a lot of things in EVE you either like it hate it or do something else.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-20 12:06:24 UTC
move,
Even though im bitching, im happy with my corp and our location for what i do in eve. I just wanted to get other peoples ideas and if they feel that drones are inferior as well.

As for the dev post about putting bounties on drones. i support that. Or there is another route to go. Lower the bounties on all the other rats, and make their loot and salvage equal to the approx value of what the drones are now. That would lower the inflation in eve and make loot and salvage more critical than it is now in the bounty rat space. A pro ratter in bounty space doesnt bother salvaging because he makes more just creating more wrecks.

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#5 - 2011-10-20 12:06:46 UTC
The perceived worthlessness of drone rats and the drone regions made the DRF the pwnwagon it is today.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Frozen Eddie Johnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2011-10-20 12:43:50 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
The perceived worthlessness of drone rats and the drone regions made the DRF the pwnwagon it is today.


That's because bots don't care how much isk/hour it is, they just like the 23/7 minerals.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-20 13:11:49 UTC
to OP: have you ever heard about T2 salvaged materials? You know: when you see Sentient drone you got luck. It can be small luck or it can be great luck.

Let's say: i personally once got 6 capacitor consoles from 1 sentient BS from horde. This is like 120mils. And i'm not one who have had such luck.

Other rogue drone bonus: living in dronelands means you don't need to haul low-value minerals from Jita or mine veldspar to build ships. You get minerals from rogue drones.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-10-20 14:01:42 UTC
if you got 120 mil in t2 salvage from one sentient bs, you hit the jackpot. Ive had six, and less then 1 mil in salvage combined. and suggesting that the bonus to the drone region is you dont have to haul low end minerals from empire to null is like looking at a really crappy painting, and sayin, i like this shade of green. Sure there may be a small bonus, but i heard the same thing when the noctis originally came out was going to flood the market with low grade modules, that would be refined and destroy mineral values

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#9 - 2011-10-20 14:09:12 UTC
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!

As to Drones, I think they should be SALVAGE
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-20 14:18:04 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!

As to Drones, I think they should be SALVAGE



why should drones just be salvage. Again, the first line in the post is, if drones are designed to be inferior, then it makes sense, but if all npc are supposed to be equal, why should they just be salvage

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2011-10-20 14:20:31 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!


Uhm, good point. Oops Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#12 - 2011-10-20 14:21:26 UTC
What do I get when I blow up another person's drones? nothing

Blowing them up should leave parts and pieces, aka salvage.

As to equity with other rats, that's for CCP to figure out a balance. Add more drones, have them swarm, have them hide off overview ...
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#13 - 2011-10-20 14:22:29 UTC
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!


Uhm, good point. Oops Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.


Sorry to sound like such an ashat.

I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2011-10-20 14:23:56 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!


Uhm, good point. Oops Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.


Sorry to sound like such an ashat.

I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough.


You've got nothing to apologize for -- rules are rules, after all. Smile

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-20 14:24:00 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
What do I get when I blow up another person's drones? nothing

Blowing them up should leave parts and pieces, aka salvage.

As to equity with other rats, that's for CCP to figure out a balance. Add more drones, have them swarm, have them hide off overview ...



I really dont see the connection, other than in name, between player drones and npc rogue drones.

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-10-20 14:24:59 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!


Uhm, good point. Oops Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.


Sorry to sound like such an ashat.

I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough.



whats F&I

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#17 - 2011-10-20 14:26:48 UTC
I confused your thread with the other thread spitfire linked.

Are drones more work than normal belt rats, yes. I think that belt rats are the problem though, they shouldn't pay bounties except in empire, they should be tags instead.

That would make this system more equal, although not likely in the direction you want.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-10-20 14:30:41 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
I confused your thread with the other thread spitfire linked.

Are drones more work than normal belt rats, yes. I think that belt rats are the problem though, they shouldn't pay bounties except in empire, they should be tags instead.

That would make this system more equal, although not likely in the direction you want.


the direction i want is just balance. Im not saying i want to make more money per hour of effort, just my hour of effort in drone region should be worth as much as the other npcs. Im all for lowering rat bounties, or other solutions to make things more balanced. Tags would be an awesome solution. or have them drop enough loot to equal 500k-1.85 mil in refined minerals. many solutions, just a post about balancing.

still,
whats F&I

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#19 - 2011-10-20 14:51:32 UTC
Features and Ideas
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Sri Bolyn
Disciples of the Void
#20 - 2011-10-20 15:38:11 UTC
Regarding Rogue Drones and their worth, why not:

1) Have a massive one off Rogue Drone Incursion (potentially with several live events).

2) During this incursion Rogue Drones go from a far off menace in the eyes of the Empires to an imminent threat and Concord applies the appropriate bounties.

3) Assuming the drones are defeated (wink wink) they fall back to the Drone regions to assess the related data. The first conclusion they come to is that the material they drop would be better served being processed into more weapons and mods for their own war effort. Now they would have similar drops to "normal rats".

4) This gives CCP the opportunity to change Rogue Drones in a way that makes sense and more importantly will be seen as fun (to some).

5) Appropriate faction loot would have to be developed...Drone mods etc...

Thx for reading
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