EVE General Discussion

Oh! Well in that case, can I suggest you start your nullsec invasion by pushing into Delve or Syndicate? Should be easy to gain a foothold there...

There's a lot wrong with your post but I will concentrate on just one point:

0.0 players are also empire players.

I am a 0.0 player - by which I mean I spend ~70% of my gametime in high-sec farming level 4 missions. But the other 30% during which I pvp in 0.0 are what I see as defining of my playstyle and that's why I'd violently refuse being labeled as a "carebear".

I have not just one but two characters for mission running, I have a Hulk pilot, I have a freighter, I have an Orca, I have 2 trade alts, ....

I do all the things high-sec carebears do and if you did observe any of my empire characters for a few hours you would probably come to the conclusion that I am a fairly typical carebear.

The distinguishing factor is not what I do but why I do it. A carebear does his carebaring for its own sake, I do it because I need ISK to fund my pvp activities.

And I am not untypical. A large share of the "carebears" you observe in high-sec - running missions, doing mining ops, freightering stuff around, playing market games, ... - are the alts of 0.0 players.
We don't tend to talk much about these activities as we don't define ourselves through them (in contrast to "real" carebears) but we do them just like you.

We understand the markets, we know how to run a business, we have vast stocks of resources, and you don't have to force us into carebearing as we do it already (and do it in high-sec as the risk vs reward balance for carebearing in 0.0 is just bad).

I'm certain there is some fancy Sun Tzu quote about the dangers of thinking you understand something when in fact you do not have a clue. Please look it up and apply it to yourself, Thanks.

industrialists who consider t2 bpos as "investments" despite optimistically taking at least 2-3 years to pay for themselves while their market value is prone to the winds of CCP's whims are notoriously good at creating business plans, apparently

the biggest problem with this are not the carebears, its more the null sec people who keep telling me with every comment they make: "please mr. carebear don't do this, we want our place nice and quiet so we can keep spinning our ships in the hangar"

You really do try hard to conform to the stereotype of the Sun Tzu quoting high-sec pubbie. "Someone tells me I am full of ****, therefore I must have been right", next-level analytical thinking right there.

How successful you are at business in EVE depends very little on whether you spend 3h or 8h per day staring at market screens.

What matters is your ability to create buzz, your ability to control supply, your ability to stay current on blue posts/patch notes/... and to anticipate CCP moves, ... you won't be able to do that if you only spend 10 minutes per day on it but you don't need to babysit orders 23/7.

We can speculate all day about what percentages of high-sec market moguls are part of pvp alliances but if you look at who actually has pulled off successful large-scale manipulations and cartels you are looking at the likes of the Goonswarm Cabal or KwarK.


On the other hand maybe other things are not equal, maybe your statement is true and these players are just smarter than your regular high-sec carebear (and that's why they manage to combine being in a pvp alliance with being successful at playing the markets).

After all it does seem reasonable that highly skilled individuals would also try to be competitive in other aspects of the game (such as pvp) or appreciate all the advantages that only a large, well-organized 0.0 alliance can offer them (such as the ability to control/intercept the supply of critical inputs, political power, a few hundred people who will buy what you tell them when you tell them, ...). Maybe some sort of self-selection does occur and the best don't stay carebears for long.

Anyways, what I am trying to is that the skills high-sec carebears have is a subset of the skills found in any sizeable 0.0 alliance. You don't have any single advantage over them because they play your game the same way you do - but you refuse to play their game.


Then why do you post? Do you think someone else will read your post and say "OMG I never thought of this, I am going to sink all my eleventy trillion ISK into this strategy that is so convincing not even its creator is willing to give it a shot?"

These threads do hit a nerve with 0.0 players - they start out looking all promising and action-y but inevitably end in a bunch of high-sec pubbies making big words while waiting for someone to do something, never lifting a finger themselves.

We would unironically love for someone to bring it on. We would love for some attempt to get at least to the level where it can fail hilariously - but all we get is abortions and stillborns.