These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

[DUTY] Divestment of Pyre Falcon Defence and Security shares

Author
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-05-17 12:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
17 May YC 115

Nonni III - Moon 1 - Kaalakiota Orbital

This is public notification that as of 0900 Hours 17 May YC 115, Pyre Falcon Defence and Security has divested 100% of common stock to a private investment conglomerate representing both individual and institutional interests within Kaalakiota Corporation, Wiyrkomi Corporation, and Lai Dai Corporation. The transaction was conducted through the Nonni Securities Exchange and stock was sold at a nominal price of 0.01 ISK per share brokered via a Halaima registered firm.

Current divestment of stock as divided by Company stake now stands at: 46% Kaalakiota Corporation; 32% Wiyrkomi Corporation; 22% Lai Dai Corporation. Pyre Falcon Defence and Security remains a private company and will not disclose further information regarding the identities of its investors at this point in time pursuant with the desire of current stakeholders to retain their privacy.

Current operations of Pyre Falcon Defence and Security and its subsidiaries will remain unaffected until such time scheduled closed session general meetings are concluded between the Executive Board and current stakeholders.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Chairwoman
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-06-13 17:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
13 June YC 115

Nonni III - Moon 1 - Kaalakiota Orbital

On 17 May YC 115, total shares of Pyre Falcon Defence and Security were divested in a private IPO to interests associated with Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi and Lai Dai corporations. Upon conclusion of discussion with shareholders in a continuing series of closed-session Board meetings between 18 May YC 115 and 12 June YC 115, the following decisions regarding policy and operations have been agreed to:

I. Corporate policy statement regarding operations in Federal territories as outlined here, is to be officially rescinded.

II. Pyre Falcon Defence Combine will continue to prosecute the contractual obligations of service to the State Protectorate under CEWPA mandates in the conduct of armed conflict against the Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic.

III. Pyre Falcon Defence Combine shall seek to provide preferential service based military contracts solely to the following entities:

- Kaalakiota Corporation
- Wiyrkomi Corporation
- Lai Dai Corporation
- Caldari Navy
- Home Guard
- Wiyrkomi Peace Corps
- Lai Dai Protection Services
- Royal Khanid Navy
- House Tash-Murkon

IV. The establishment of off-shore detention and processing facilities to be situated in the Khanid Kingdom for Federal and Republic enemy combatants captured as prisoners of war in the course of corporate military action under the CEWPA conflict, pending successful conclusion of contract negotiations with Khanid Kingdom Holder interests.

18 June YC 115: Further Addendums outlined here.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Chairwoman
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Anslo
Scope Works
#3 - 2013-06-13 18:03:37 UTC
So you're gonna sell POWs into slavery?...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#4 - 2013-06-13 18:06:11 UTC
No.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-06-13 18:25:19 UTC
Anslo wrote:
So you're gonna sell POWs into slavery?...


That is a particularly loaded and incorrect term for the program envisioned. It is simply the repayment of incurred associated debts such as clothing, feeding and construction of facilities for private detention through a negotiated indentured labour work program under the oversight of Khanid Kingdom Holders wishing to be part of the program.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Anslo
Scope Works
#6 - 2013-06-13 18:26:17 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So you're gonna sell POWs into slavery?...


That is a particularly loaded and incorrect term for the program envisioned. It is simply the repayment of incurred associated debts such as clothing, feeding and construction of facilities for private detention through a negotiated indentured labour work program under the oversight of Khanid Kingdom Holders wishing to be part of the program.


That's just a very very long synonym...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#7 - 2013-06-13 18:36:17 UTC
Yeah, that's selling POWs into slavery. Good work becoming worse than our enemies.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-06-13 18:40:29 UTC
Since these contracts are not yet concluded, I'd be more than happy to detain and process these prisoners free of charge!
Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#9 - 2013-06-13 18:53:27 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So you're gonna sell POWs into slavery?...


That is a particularly loaded and incorrect term for the program envisioned. It is simply the repayment of incurred associated debts such as clothing, feeding and construction of facilities for private detention through a negotiated indentured labour work program under the oversight of Khanid Kingdom Holders wishing to be part of the program.


That's just a very very long synonym...


It helps some people to justify their deeds with elaborate wording instead of facing the true reality of their actions. It is just deception of self as well as attempted deception of others. Hiding behind corporate jargon, edicts and frivolous descriptions as they fear what the lack of plausible deniability and brutal honesty would paint their true selves as.

These people are slavers, with every implication of the word.

It takes one to know one.

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2013-06-13 19:14:45 UTC
I'd like to remind everyone that no laws - neither Khanid nor State - are violated by these contracts, which might lead those able to reflect longer than fifteen seconds about the issue to realize that 'Slavery' is off the table.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-13 19:18:28 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
That is a particularly loaded and incorrect term for the program envisioned. It is simply the repayment of incurred associated debts such as clothing, feeding and construction of facilities for private detention through a negotiated indentured labour work program under the oversight of Khanid Kingdom Holders wishing to be part of the program.

"Negotiated intendured labour work program" is simply very flowery doublespeak for "we'll have someone else do the slaveholding for us." What you're doing is taking POWs - who, incidentally, are legal combatants in this war - and giving them to the members of a civilization well known for keeping slaves who are, among that civilization, the most likely to be keeping slaves, to engage in indentured labour at private detention facilities. Just because you don't call it slavery, and just because you're outsourcing the implementation to someon eelse, it doesn't somehow make it not slavery, and it certainly doesn't insulate you from guilt.

You say that this is "repayment of incurred associated debts such as clothing, feeding and construction of facilitires for private detention?" Well, those things might well cost money but this being the case, I have to ask - whose fault is that? Pyre Falcon was operating under a perfectly reasonable method of dealing with prisoners that did not require extensive budget outlays for clothing, feeding and housing detainees. Pieter Tuulinen detailed it succinctly in this announcement:

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
4. We reiterate our commitment to the rules of war regarding the rescue of enemy combatant ship crews from life pods after fleet battles as soon as is practicably possible. Moreover we will move to repatriate recovered FDU crewmembers, not guilty of crimes, without exchange to any FDU alliance or organisation that signs a reciprocal agreement.

You have, inexplicably, rescinded this policy in favour of either selling or just giving - I'm not precisely certain which one of those is worse - prisoners of war to Khanid slave camps.

There should never be a circumstance in which I, an Intaki Federal citizen, am forced to instruct a citizen of the State how to be Caldari. The fact that you leave me no choice is disgraceful. Members of Pyre Falcon: the State does not keep slaves. Citizens of the State do not do trade in human lives. If you are doing this at all, and particularly if you are doing this in the name of the State, you are failing at being a Caldari, and you are dishonouring the memory of the Raata.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#12 - 2013-06-13 19:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
The laws aren't the question. Slavery is legal in Khanid and one would assume POW's would be moved from lowsec into Khanid to avoid State restrictions on slave transportation. However, this could be worked around by labeling the people as POWs, which would be acceptable. At which point, they'd be dropped off at a Khanid 'processing facility' to be given to a Khanid Holder as a slave, which is legal in their part of space.

What IS in question is the round about legal language to hide what it is and why a State Corporation as admirable as PYRE is doing this now.

It's slavery, plain and simple.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#13 - 2013-06-13 19:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinari Otsito
Desiderya wrote:
I'd like to remind everyone that no laws - neither Khanid nor State - are violated by these contracts, which might lead those able to reflect longer than fifteen seconds about the issue to realize that 'Slavery' is off the table.



Oh ****, son! Guess that means I don't actually do drugs then, since I'm beyond those particular laws at the moment. Nor do I kill when I send my drones after those that pester me, since it's not illegal. I mean, when you reflect on that **** I come out pristine and clean as a whistle.

Wait, no... I still do the drugs and I still do the killing.

I guess you're still doin' the slavin'. You just do it legally, hiding behind fairly poor legalese shields.

You don't actually think that makes it any better, do you?

Edit: Damn it, when Ixiris is better at being Caldari than you guys, something's seriously ******* wrong with the universe.
Get it together, seriously.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2013-06-13 19:30:01 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
There should never be a circumstance in which I, an Intaki Federal citizen, am forced to instruct a citizen of the State how to be Caldari. The fact that you leave me no choice is disgraceful. Members of Pyre Falcon: the State does not keep slaves. Citizens of the State do not do trade in human lives. If you are doing this at all, and particularly if you are doing this in the name of the State, you are failing at being a Caldari, and you are dishonouring the memory of the Raata.


OK, no, stop. Right there.

Not again.

Not after everything that's happened and all the good that's gone on.

We don't get to tell then what to do. We can question it, we can disapprove, but we don't get to tell them what it means to be Caldari. Slavery is seen as inefficient in the State, not evil and illegal. Transporting slaves IS illegal. But aside from that, it's not a State thing. So let's not go and make a sweeping statement about telling them how to be Caldari. That's just not a good path to take right now. Please, for the love of the Eight.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#15 - 2013-06-13 19:32:10 UTC
Anslo wrote:
The laws aren't the question. Slavery is legal in Khanid and one would assume POW's would be moved from lowsec into Khanid to avoid State restrictions on slave transportation. However, this could be worked around by labeling the people as POWs, which would be acceptable. At which point, they'd be dropped off at a Khanid 'processing facility' to be given to a Khanid Holder as a slave, which is legal in their part of space.

What IS in question is the round about legal language to hide what it is and why a State Corporation as admirable as PYRE is doing this now.

It's slavery, plain and simple.


While the Khanid Kingdom is more liberal in regards to slavery on very small - household - scales, it is restricted to slavers and holders to take, trade or own slaves. You might want to keep that in mind before getting outraged.


Jinari Otsito,

Your behaviour can not be used to extrapolate the behaviour of others.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#16 - 2013-06-13 19:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinari Otsito
Anslo wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
There should never be a circumstance in which I, an Intaki Federal citizen, am forced to instruct a citizen of the State how to be Caldari. The fact that you leave me no choice is disgraceful. Members of Pyre Falcon: the State does not keep slaves. Citizens of the State do not do trade in human lives. If you are doing this at all, and particularly if you are doing this in the name of the State, you are failing at being a Caldari, and you are dishonouring the memory of the Raata.


OK, no, stop. Right there.

Not again.

Not after everything that's happened and all the good that's gone on.

We don't get to tell then what to do. We can question it, we can disapprove, but we don't get to tell them what it means to be Caldari. Slavery is seen as inefficient in the State, not evil and illegal. Transporting slaves IS illegal. But aside from that, it's not a State thing. So let's not go and make a sweeping statement about telling them how to be Caldari. That's just not a good path to take right now. Please, for the love of the Eight.


Why not? He's right, and that's coming from someone who is Caldari.
Engaging in slavery is directly against the very core of our society, meritocracy and Heiian both.
It very much is a State thing, even if we don't impose our values on our allies. Ourselves however, is a different thing entirely.

Quote:
Your behaviour can not be used to extrapolate the behaviour of others.


Read it again, it's not about extrapolating behaviour, it's about reflecting on bullshit. You can try to define a pile of **** as Biological Plant Growth Accelerator but it still stinks when you step in it and what you're doing is still slavery however pretty you try to make it sound.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Anslo
Scope Works
#17 - 2013-06-13 19:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Desiderya wrote:
While the Khanid Kingdom is more liberal in regards to slavery on very small - household - scales, it is restricted to slavers and holders to take, trade or own slaves. You might want to keep that in mind before getting outraged.


So what, you use legal jargon and contractual language to place POW in 'care' of an outsourced group which may state that what the Khanid do with them is their business so long as [insert loose language here]. I might play an idiot but I'm not an idiot.

Jinari I ...sorry. I don't know what to say. I didn't mean to assume...but uh...yeah my ..yeah. Sorry.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Coyote Torres
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#18 - 2013-06-13 19:50:37 UTC
Woah, slow down guys. Everybody take a deep breath and count to ten. (Ixiris, you might want to hold it until you reach fifteen.)

Detention facilities I can understand. Is anybody from Pyre able to explain what is meant by 'processing facilities' ?

A further question since I'm at it, what is the proposed process from the moment an enemy combatant is taken into custody, to the time when they're considered for exchange or repatriation?

Potentially it could make sense for those people taken as prisoners to be housed in facilities like this.

What's the alternative, really? Have a hoard of idle and scared/angry people camped out under guard in Pyre's corporate hangars? I think there's a lot that could go wrong when this is handled piecemeal. Props to Pyre for looking into a sustainable solution.

Lets not forget that these are enemy combatatants. As long as they're treated decently, and their rights are respected according to State and Kingdom law, I don't see that Pyre has any obligation to throw extra isk their way for creature comforts. They can earn their keep like anybody else.

A settled facility can offer a routine and some structure if it's done right. If its overseen by those much more experienced in managing prisoners as indentured workers, its arguably a much more benevolent solution for the short to middle term than keeping the prisoners on hand .

I would certainly hope that there would be plans to exchange these prisoners for captive Caldari before drawing up any contracts, or release people through future repatriation programs.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-13 19:58:36 UTC
Coyote Torres wrote:
Lets not forget that these are enemy combatatants. As long as they're treated decently, and their rights are respected according to State and Kingdom law, I don't see that Pyre has any obligation to throw extra isk their way for creature comforts. They can earn their keep like anybody else.

Alright. OK. Let's hypothesise for a moment. Let's say I go back to the FDU at some point, and wind up with a whole bunch of survivors from State Protectorate ships I kill. I decide I can't deal with them, so I look for some form of humanitarian organisation.

Oh, look, the True Slave Foundation say they're humanitarians. Hey, you know what, they rescue people without even being asked to! They clearly have the neccessary qualifications to look after my vast horde of Caldari POWs! Oh boy, TSF, you literally can't get those transports over here fast enough!

Now of course I trust TSF implicitly and without question (for any of you watching at home, the rhetorical tactic I'm currently employing is an obscure and little-used art known as "sarcasm," in which a person states something insincere for illustrative or comedic effect), and I can give you my assurance that their rights will be respected according to Federation and Nation law.

Colluding with cyborg zombies, you say? Perish the thought!

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#20 - 2013-06-13 20:01:47 UTC
POWs are going to be kept according to State laws, including the duration of their detention.
As you might be aware, with the lack of any finalized contracts, there's no clear outline regarding the circumstances of the detention facility in question, as this largely depends on what can be offered. However, I want to both repeat and stress my earlier point that Pyre Falcon Defence Combine is not going to engage in the slave trade.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

123Next pageLast page