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Shields ability to 1 slot tank Incursions is killing Incursion tank balance between shields/armour
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#1 - 2013-05-16 06:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
how about rebalancing Incursions sites Affinity? Its been over a year now since the escalation nerf screwed armour fleets is armour PvE supposed to be at such a disadvatage still?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#2 - 2013-05-16 06:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
The escalation nerf overloaded the Vanguard eHP with extra cruisers to rebalance but never did the same to assualts or HQ's with frigates. Armour in mid slots has an advantage with tracking but all the BS's & cruiser rats added ( plus the mara palia in OTA's ) killed armour fleets tracking advantage in everything but NCO's.

Unintentionally I think CCP buffed the shields advantage beyond competitive reason. Now in all the Incursion sites armour only has an advantage in Nation Commander sites ( but only if they MWD fit ): and that just barely.

Incursions need attention again either redo Sansha sites or a new pirate incursion please!
The lack of content re iteration sucks ballz
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#3 - 2013-05-16 06:35:00 UTC
Serious and no trolling meant.
Why didn't you use the year gone to train shields? If there is a more efficient way to do something which is proving better why not move over to it? if CCP then nerf that and make armour better you can just switch back.
CCP don't do FOTM they seem to like FOTY more... from my own experience you're better just moving to what works best and using it then expecting them to ever fix something they broke.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#4 - 2013-05-16 06:55:39 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Serious and no trolling meant.
Why didn't you use the year gone to train shields? If there is a more efficient way to do something which is proving better why not move over to it? if CCP then nerf that and make armour better you can just switch back.
CCP don't do FOTM they seem to like FOTY more... from my own experience you're better just moving to what works best and using it then expecting them to ever fix something they broke.


I guess I just like to fight the power.
But really should 1 tank have such an advantage in PvE while the other has just a slight advantage in PvP?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#5 - 2013-05-16 07:09:20 UTC
The "advantage" that shields get is just not that big. The armour vs shield tank thing has been done absolutely to death in other threads, so I'm not going to get into it again, search my posting history.

And what is this 1-slot tank you're talking about? I assume its an a-type invul? Is anyone stupid enough to try tanking incursions with that little tank? Are you counting rigs or not?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-16 07:24:23 UTC
Yeas, cos the easiest way in the game to get endless ISK definitely need a buff...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#7 - 2013-05-16 13:25:42 UTC
Man up and buy a Nightmare.

Not today spaghetti.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#8 - 2013-05-16 13:41:27 UTC
Quote:
Shields ability to 1 slot tank Incursions is killing armour Incursion balance

It's literally beyond impossible to 1-slot tank and Incursion. The only REAL difference between the types is this:

SHIELD: Higher DPS output (if) there are enough in fleet with free mids for Webs. EHP must be slightly higher due to Sig bloom.

ARMOR: Faster movement (easier to fit Prop) + utility like dual Webs/TP/etc at a lower DPS output. EHP can be lower.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Bloody Wench
#9 - 2013-05-16 15:33:52 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Yeas, cos the easiest way in the game to get endless ISK definitely need a buff...



C6 Magnetar exploiting hypocrite.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#10 - 2013-05-16 15:50:56 UTC
Ok Darth... against my better judgement I'm going to try to explain to you why you think the armor vs. shield argument is valid but in reality it is not.

First off a few things about your community, The Ditanian Fleet and Born Ara.

1. You have low standards for ships/fittings.
a) One time to prove a point to a friend that TDF was bad I linked a guardian fit with a full meta 1 fit with medium reppers, I was promptly invited to fleet and asked to join on grid and I didn't turn on a single rep the whole time, being as I was the 3rd guardian on grid, no one noticed.
b) You allow tech 1 battleships into your fleets without tech 2 guns.

2. TDF and Born Ara are both full of typical Eve players. All the FC's/Officers of TDF throw their weight around like their something special, (ETS Jammer is the only well adjusted normal human being in the whole bunch IMO) they all go on and on about fittings and their amazing amount of knowledge they have with incursions and incursion mechanics, (when in actuality they are all fairly bad at ship fittings and have limited knowledge about optimal fleet setups) and most of the FC's are just downright egomaniacs.

More power to you guys for running an armor community like this, have fun and enjoy your PvE. However if you are going to continue to argue about how armor is soooooo broken compared to shield for incursion fleets then you had better be running optimal setups like 90% of the shield fleets are.

Now... I took ship setups from the major shield fleets for the Vindicator and Machariel, VG and HQ fits, and checked the numbers on the best fits. Then I setup armor ships to compare the numbers.

Vindicator
Shield VG
EHP: 60,110
Resists
EM: 60.7
Therm: 57.5
Kin: 68.1
Expl: 73.4
DPS: 1582
Optimal + Falloff: 6.4 + 23
Tracking: 0.12927

Armor VG
EHP: 71,396
Resists
EM: 67.0
Therm: 57.1
Kin: 57.1
Expl: 56.1
DPS: 1582
Optimal + Falloff: 6.4 + 23
Tracking: 0.15327

The HQ Vindicator fit and Machariel VG and HQ fits match up basically the same as those fits.

I checked the numbers on the Basilisk vs. Guardian and the results are about the same. I'm sure Scimitar vs. Oneiros is much the same as well.

Another huge bonus to running an armor fleet is the Legion, which I have numbers on but seeing as the Tengu is not used in most high end shield incursion communities I won't post the numbers to compare, needless to say having a cruiser hull with decent EHP and amazing applied DPS to frigate hulls is a massive addition to any VG fleet.

Armor fits are calculated with a high grade Slave set, which is the major bonus of running any armor setup. If you want to whine about having to buy implants to compete (which I'm guessing you will) you need to realize that the invulnerability field that shield fleets use to get those resists/EHP is roughly the cost of a full low-grade Slave set + deadspace EANM. Also if there was a shield slave set, how many shield communites would be rocking it?

So what's my point with all this jibba jabba?

Since the death of the blitz fleet, the armor incursion community has been at a stand still whining about the VG nerf. Shield fleets have taken off running and adapted to the changes and made the most of it. TDF needs to take a long hard look at how efficient they run their community before posting anything about shield vs. armor incursion balance.

Not today spaghetti.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#11 - 2013-05-16 15:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
DeLindsay wrote:


ARMOR: Faster movement (easier to fit Prop) + utility like dual Webs/TP/etc at a lower DPS output. EHP can be lower.



Alot of good dual webs/TP does in a competition when it also helps the the competition Oops.
The prop helps only in 1 Vanguard: NCO's really (& once in a blue moon OTAs if and only if the armour fleet has a 1 spawn head start.). Prop mods don't help in assaults nor HQs
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-16 16:07:57 UTC
fit TCs instead of webs/painters

then you're only helping yourselves :D

Art of Explosions
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#13 - 2013-05-16 16:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
fit TCs instead of webs/painters

then you're only helping yourselves :D


TC's TE's fit in low slots which are filled with tank & DPS mods for armour. How about a specialized mid slot DPS mod CCP? You Gave shields a low slot tracking enhancer with the TC where's the reciprocity?

edit: FIXED
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#14 - 2013-05-16 16:48:07 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
fit TCs instead of webs/painters

then you're only helping yourselves :D


TC's fit in low slots which are filled with tank & DPS mods for armour. How about a specialized mid slot DPS mod CCP? You Gave shields a low slot tracking enhancer with the TC where's the reciprocity?


TC's fit in mid slots, not lows, and they have scripts which, IMO, makes them better than TEs.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#15 - 2013-05-16 17:05:22 UTC
Darth your trolling these people right? Or are you just having a really bad day?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#16 - 2013-05-16 19:42:07 UTC
2/10.

One slot, seriously?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#17 - 2013-05-16 21:09:59 UTC
Quote:
Alot of good dual webs/P does in a competition when it also helps the the competition

Fair enough.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-16 21:24:26 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Yeas, cos the easiest way in the game to get endless ISK definitely need a buff...

C6 Magnetar exploiting hypocrite.

lol...

a.) that was 3 years ago
b.) was fixed 3 years ago
c.) i wasnt in this corp 3 years ago
d.) even with the exploit, incursions are still a far easier and steadier income source

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#19 - 2013-05-16 22:48:56 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Bloody Wench wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Yeas, cos the easiest way in the game to get endless ISK definitely need a buff...

C6 Magnetar exploiting hypocrite.

lol...

a.) that was 3 years ago
b.) was fixed 3 years ago
c.) i wasnt in this corp 3 years ago
d.) even with the exploit, incursions are still a far easier and steadier income source


To be fair you did say easier and not better, but we all know that wormholes is where the ISK is.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-05-16 22:51:46 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Bloody Wench wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Yeas, cos the easiest way in the game to get endless ISK definitely need a buff...

C6 Magnetar exploiting hypocrite.

lol...

a.) that was 3 years ago
b.) was fixed 3 years ago
c.) i wasnt in this corp 3 years ago
d.) even with the exploit, incursions are still a far easier and steadier income source

To be fair you did say easier and not better, but we all know that wormholes is where the ISK is.

yup. wh isk is faster, incursion isk is just always there.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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